[bg4533]

I consider myself a casual Linux user, but have used it for 7-8 years now I think. I am far from a Linux expert, but I know my way around and can generally do what I need to do. Recent distributions I have tried are Redhat, Slackware, Debian, Suse, Knoppix, and Mandrake. Mandrake is my distribution of choice. Redhat is the worst of these in my opinion.

Almost 2 years ago I built a new system with 2 WD Raptors in RAID 0. It worked wonderfully on Windows and I got sustained transfer rates of over 100MB/s. Redhat was the first distro the system worked on at all, but I got transfer rates of 1.5MB/s and occasional lockups. Mandrake was the first distro the system worked right on. It was also very easy to setup and use. I then set it up on my laptop and it also worked very well. Later I upgraded to Mandrake 10 and it has been stable and even more snappy. I am happy and while most distros will probably work with my system I see no reason to change from Mandrake.

I am still disappointed there are no E-MU 1212M drivers. It forces me to use Windows if I want good sound. I am considering some sort of DAC to replace the E-MU so I can use Linux again.

 

[GokieKS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg4533 I consider myself a casual Linux user, but have used it for 7-8 years now I think. I am far from a Linux expert, but I know my way around and can generally do what I need to do. Recent distributions I have tried are Redhat, Slackware, Debian, Suse, Knoppix, and Mandrake. Mandrake is my distribution of choice. Redhat is the worst of these in my opinion.

I'm pretty much like you... I've tried a bunch of distros (RedHat/Fedora Core, SuSE, Debian, Gentoo, Knoppix, Mandrake), but I actually found FC2 to be my favorite (out of the ones that worked, anyway... on the particular system I tried it on, I simply couldn't get Gentoo up and running in a way that I would be satisfied with - especially networking and apache), while Mandrake being the worst. So my home HTTP server runs FC2... not completely satisfied with it, but it's more or less an "out of sight, out of mind" thing.

I've given some thought to moving to another distro, but thus far I've been too lazy. I did, however, get the Ubuntu distro recently, and it came with an AMD64 version, so I might give it a try on my new A64 system - as it uses nVidia for both motherboard and GPU, at least I shouldn't have driver problems for those...

EDIT: And for the record, I prefer MacOS X to any and every distribution of Linux.

~KS

 

[Stephonovich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADS To install packages on a slackware system, you use installpkg. If you want to build it yourself, you can of course, but that's not how Slackware handles packages. To upgrade all the packages on my system, all I have to do is run 'swaret --upgrade'. The only package I've installed manually has been driverloader.

In that case I fully retract my previous statement. I was under the impression Slack was still forcing you to compile (or at least download binaries) by hand.

 

[Aman]

You gave Debian too much credit.

It runs suverely far behind the times, and is still on the 2.4.x kernel in many cases!

If you want a better kernel you have to download/compile it yourself, while Gentoo offers it there for you without any troubles, right in portage.

You should really give the distros categories, because for my uses, nothing beats Gentoo for sheer power and compatability/customization. However, somebody who wants a liveCD or an easy-to-use distro will not like Gentoo.

I should also point out that any distribution that is EASY to install, or doesn't require EFFORT, is not worth using, IMO. You learn nothing, you just get a bunch of binary packages which run slower as a result and a basically disfunctional system. The only operational distro's I've used where they worked completely were, in order from best to worst:
Gentoo
Slackware
Debian
Ubutnu
Knoppix STD

Anything else is just a waste of time.

Let me also point out: Swaret is a very broken repository, and it hardly works. In addition to this, it is not built into the Slackware system itself, so packages you had installed before you installed Swaret will not show up in the package manager... wait... WHAT package manager?

- That's right, swaret or not, Slackware does not have a package manager... very poor judgement on the development team.

 

[450]

I love Gentoo, I'd give it a 5/5. It just works really well for me.

I tried XandrOS at someones house, it wasn't bad. Issues: it wasn't very responsive at times and it looks a lot like Windows.

I tried several more I forgot the names though...

 

[Stephonovich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman You gave Debian too much credit. It runs suverely far behind the times, and is still on the 2.4.x kernel in many cases! If you want a better kernel you have to download/compile it yourself, while Gentoo offers it there for you without any troubles, right in portage.

As I said, it's the first distro I actually felt connected with. It does everything I want it to, and nothing I don't. It's all IMO, obviously, but for me, it's perfection.

I passed an option at boot and it installed with a 2.6.x kernel just fine. Although, of note, the current version of parted that's included can apparently bork any Windows partitions, so they recommend you install with a 2.4.x, and then upgrade later. I have Linux on a seperate HD, though, so it wasn't an issue for me.

As for upgrading, I was able to get 2.6.8 (a whopping 2 behind the current stable) with apt-get. I did manually get and compile 2.6.11-rc1-ck1, but that's because I like the ck kernel better. If I really wanted to, I could probably find a server offering it via apt-get.

Quote:

You should really give the distros categories, because for my uses, nothing beats Gentoo for sheer power and compatability/customization. However, somebody who wants a liveCD or an easy-to-use distro will not like Gentoo.

Yeah, I know. I was tired and didn't feel like editing it anymore before posting. Might do that, though.

Quote:

I should also point out that any distribution that is EASY to install, or doesn't require EFFORT, is not worth using, IMO. You learn nothing, you just get a bunch of binary packages which run slower as a result and a basically disfunctional system.

While I mostly agree with you, I feel there are exceptions. For instance, Red Hat. 99% of the time, it installs without a hitch, and is rock stable. Do you learn anything from it? Not if you don't touch it, as you said. However, it's also the gold standard (like it or not) for Linux Administration, and there's a ton you can learn.

I'm currently taking a Linux Sys Admin class at AB Tech. We're using Red Hat Academy curriculum, which obviously means we're using Red Hat. (Enterprise 3) You know how long we spent on the install? About 45 minutes, of which only about 15 minutes was actual interaction. We all knew how to install a distro already, so all we had to learn was how to make a Kickstart file, and then off it went, grabbing files as it needed them from a server in the next room. By your standards, we 'didn't learn anything'. Quite the opposite; we're learning a ton. We're just choosing not to focus on things we don't need to do, such as hand-compiling every package (we know how to compile already), or spending 4 hours installing it. We have work, and we need a solid OS to back it up.

Quote:

The only operational distro's I've used where they worked completely were, in order from best to worst: Gentoo Slackware Debian Ubutnu Knoppix STD

I don't really think STD can be ranked in there. It's a Live CD. Yes, you can install it, but it's not designed to be installed and used on a day to day basis. It does what it needs to do, and it does it very well.

Quote:

Anything else is just a waste of time.

Thousands of distro authors would like to have a word with you

 

[plainsong]

Debian Sarge was at kernel 2.6.something, which isn't exactly 2.4

Pardon them for wanting to keep things stable.

Ok, I have further narrowed down my audio woes: And it's name is Gnome (although we were finally able to get audio in XMMS).

I prefer Gnome to KDE, but sound works in KDE.

However, there's still no audio coming from the cdrom. And it's only seeing one of the drives and not both... even though both appear to be detected at startup. This is where Debian becomes a pain in the @ss.

 

[ADS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman Let me also point out: Swaret is a very broken repository, and it hardly works. In addition to this, it is not built into the Slackware system itself, so packages you had installed before you installed Swaret will not show up in the package manager... wait... WHAT package manager? - That's right, swaret or not, Slackware does not have a package manager... very poor judgement on the development team.

Swaret grabs its packages from whichever repository you choose. I use the official slackware-current, and I haven't had any problems. Swaret uses installpkg to install its packages, so they can in fact been seen under pkgtool. You may want to read this chapter of the Slackware Book about Slackware package management: http://www.slackware.com/book/index....rce=c3984.html

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADS Swaret grabs its packages from whichever repository you choose. I use the official slackware-current, and I haven't had any problems. Swaret uses installpkg to install its packages, so they can in fact been seen under pkgtool. You may want to read this chapter of the Slackware Book about Slackware package management: http://www.slackware.com/book/index....rce=c3984.html

It's not a package manager. If it were, I'd be able to see everything that was installed... You can't do that in pkgtool

Stephonovich: I'm a distro author myself, and helped with the first release of Portage for Gentoo. I have an obvious bias

 

[wallijonn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephonovich wallijonn, I apologize in advance for the Ubuntu bashing.

That's oaky - I know it's not perfect, but I like it best of all the distros I've tried so far (Ultrix (DEC Linux / Unix), OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Immunix, IPCop, BitDefender, Prodigy, Slackware, Debian Woody, SuSE, Red Hat, Fedora Core, Gentoo, VidaLinux, Mandrake).

Since I never got used to IceWM / Fluxbox and was tired of KDE (I can't stand the Blue Crystal theme, anymore than I can stand the GNOME 2.4, 2.6 and Mozilla themes or the OpenOffice non-colour theme) I really fell in love with GNOME 2.8 because it had to have Evolution and FireFox (after getting tired of KDEOffice, ABIWord, Mozilla, Konqueror, etc.). Konqueror was crashing on me after an upgrade and so I would end up using Galleon, Epithany or Mozilla. SUSE just didn't upgrade correctly.

If you've read some of my responses on www.ubuntuforums.org you'll know that many times I try to steer people away from Ubuntu - whether it be the overly experienced user or the in-experienced user. For most I try to steer them to SuSE. I have to admit that I do not have the patience to deal with newbies who try to do things like they do in Windows, so I prefer that others take their questions.

I really like SPM, preferring it to SuSe where I have to strip all sorts of programs from it that I do not want (after installing everything because I couldn't resist temptation to try them all). Mandrake I don't think I ever really gave a chance to - there was something I just didn't like about it.

I loved Slakckware but moved onto Red Hat because I preferred Evolution; but after RH stopped support for RH9 and came out with Fedora Core without an easy upgrade path and stopped their online support - it was bye bye, Fedora. With SuSe I never could get my ATI 9800 Pro working right and while VidaLinux was beautiful I could not put up with 24 hour compile times for OpenOffice. I do not like going to sleep and leaving my PC running overnight.

Ubuntu has satiated my need to tweak; I've had more fun installing packages than un-installing packages like I did with Red Hat or SuSE. Slackware will no longer support GNOME which became my WM of choice.

So, no, I am not upset that you find fault with Ubuntu. I will go so far to say that I don't want the non-even-in-diapers Linux users to try it - try KDE instead. Wean yourself on Slackware and Gentoo before trying Ubuntu; try SuSE, Mandrake, Fedora before coming over. My life on the ubuntu forums will probably be a lot easier.

If you like a nice distro that works nice once you tweak it, Ubuntu is great. If however you are tempted by the latest and greatest, the flash and the glitter - stay away; try Yoper, Gentoo, etc. If you really get turned off by command line programming - you'll hate Slackware. If you get paranoid when you see compiler error messages, stay away from Gentoo and VidaLinux. If you're security minded try FreeBSD, Immunix,m IPCop, BitDefender, LEAF, anything but Ubuntu because your first question is likely to be "Why isn't there a built in firewall?" Your second question will be "Why can't it play DVDs and internet Radio?, why should I have to install Xine, MPlayer and XMMS?"

And with all things laptop and SATA, expect a lot of problems. Have an Audigy2 card or a SIS chipset? Try other distros before you try Ubuntu; try Libranet if you have to to have the greatest chance for all your drivers to work correctly. If you have an ATI card and you don't want to use XFree86, try Gentoo or VidaLinux which uses XOrg, instead, otherwise you'll be tempted to try Hoary because of XOrg and you'll probably only have problems. Got an AMD64 and wish to try a 64 bit OS? Ubuntu is probably not for you.

 

[Stephonovich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong Debian Sarge was at kernel 2.6.something, which isn't exactly 2.4 Pardon them for wanting to keep things stable. Ok, I have further narrowed down my audio woes: And it's name is Gnome (although we were finally able to get audio in XMMS). I prefer Gnome to KDE, but sound works in KDE. However, there's still no audio coming from the cdrom. And it's only seeing one of the drives and not both... even though both appear to be detected at startup. This is where Debian becomes a pain in the @ss.

I don't really mind them staying a few versions back in the kernel; I can understand their reasons. I personally prefer living on the bleeding edge, but I also have no problem manually getting the latest patch.

Gnome's giving you audio problems, eh? I haven't had any issues. I'm going to switch over to Fluxbox or Enlightenment pretty soon, though, so we'll see how that goes. I'm just not a huge fan of Gnome/KDE. Too big.

No idea about your CDROM woes. I'm sure you've done this, but what's showing up in /proc/ide?

 

[Stephonovich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman Stephonovich: I'm a distro author myself, and helped with the first release of Portage for Gentoo. I have an obvious bias

Whoa... hats off. Portage is indeed genius, I'll give it that. I'm probably going to give Gentoo another try eventually - as I said, I can't stand the compile times. distcc should help with that, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallijonn Since I never got used to IceWM / Fluxbox and was tired of KDE (I can't stand the Blue Crystal theme anymore than I can stand the GNOME 2.4, 2.6 and Mozilla themes or the OpenOffice non-colour theme) I really fell in love with GNOME 2.8 because4 it had to have Evolution and FireFox. Konqueror was crashing on me after an upgrade and so I would end up using Galleon, Epithany or Mozilla.

I love Fluxbox, but haven't been able to tweak it as much as I like. Need to find a HOWTO for it sometime and devote a couple hours. I like non-cluttered desktops, with everything available via pop-up menus. Discreetly hidden status bars are acceptable.

Quote:

For most I try to steer them to SuSE. I have to admit that I do not have the patience to deal with newbies who try to do things like they do in Windows, so I prefer that others take their questions.

SUSE is indeed good for newbies. If nothing else, the sheer amount of packages will keep them in awe for days

I wasn't a big fan due to the amount of crap it piles on, but I've also seen SUSE installations where the owner took the time to take out everything they didn't need. It is quite fast and nice when cored down. I still maintain YAST2 is the best package manager/control center ever created. (sorry Aman)

Quote:

Ubuntu has satiated my need to tweak; I've had more fun installing packages than un-installing packages like I did with Red Hat or SuSE. Slackware will no longer support GNOME which became my WM of choice.

That's where I felt Ubuntu failed. Does it give you the freedom to manually edit all your configuration files (or write them from scratch) if you wish, or does it yell at you and tell you to use a GUI? I like distros to be stable and able to run when I install them, and then sit back and let me do whatever I want. It's also necessary with my hardware. 99% of the time, XFree/Xorg mis-identifies my Radeon 9800 Pro (or gives up and slaps a generic VESA on there), my Gateway EV 500 monitor (have to manually give it the Hsync/Vsync), and sometimes my mouse.. (Logitech USB wheel)

 

[wallijonn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong (although we were finally able to get audio in XMMS). I prefer Gnome to KDE, but sound works in KDE. However, there's still no audio coming from the cdrom. And it's only seeing one of the drives and not both... even though both appear to be detected at startup.

Start by reading the error logs in /var/log. Are both drives the same ATA speed? Do both have the 4 wire analogue cable connected? Did you uncheck the mixer mute button?

 

[3lusiv3]

I used Yellow Dog Linux for a long time, without a GUI, as a server and loved it. The latest version is supposed to be very good. The US Navy are using Apple Xserves running 64bit Yellow Dog Linux on their submarines as part of their sonar system.

I have used NetBSD, FreeBSD and OpenBSD a fair bit as well, as servers. I used to have a keen interest in BSD and Linux, but then Mac OS X came out and I've been hooked on that ever since and don't feel the need to try any other OS. It has a lot of features from FreeBSD 5.

I still like to read Linux discussions such as this thread because I've fallen behind a bit as to which distros are best.

 

[Aman]

Steponovich: It's quite worth it in the end, trust me

However, the more powerful your machine is, the more effective the results will be.