[lucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf I've often wondered about why it seems as if "the best and the brightest" are often accused of being the most gullible when it comes to the law of diminishing returns.

I wouldn't call the people willing to spend the most money the best and brightest (or most sophisticated, or most educated, or most gullible, or most dedicated, or anything of that nature). I'd just call them the people willing to spend the most money.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif In my experience, the differences have been slight, and often barely noticeable. SQ wise, I've found the HD555, AD700, and K701 to each be great phones; I've just preferred this or that a little more in each. But to my ears, they're 99% identical, and any is perfectly capable of being used to rock out.

The key phrase in your post is "In my experience." A few folks in this thread seem to be completely ignoring the rather obvious fact that one person's experience may not be another's.

 

[PhilS]

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Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif ferraro25, Why is what subtle says ignorant? subtle said, "I mean when you think about, it's just plain laughable to imply that there is a large number of people here, typically those more educated with better jobs and having the money to spend, that have all had the wool pulled over their eyes and supposedly duped in to believing they're paying for nothing. That's just plain asinine." I'm not trying to be obtuse or difficult, just wondering what is so incendiary about what appears to be a rather sophisticated observation, on subtle's part, about the dynamics of forums.

Well put.

 

[lucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif The key phrase in your post is "In my experience." A few folks in this thread seem to be completely ignoring the rather obvious fact that one person's experience may not be another's.

Certainly; one of the points I've always tried to make in my time here is that all of our experiences are subjective. There's no objective way a headphone should sound or cost.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brighten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed. The differences aren't so night and day as we'd like to believe.

Who's "we?" To my ears, the difference between the K701, for example, and the HD650 (just to pick two phones that are even somewhat close in price) are not subtle at all. Just because you or someone else doesn't hear the differences or find them to be significant doesn't mean lots of other experienced listeners don't. Of course, folks do exaggerate on this forum about lots of things, including differences between the sound of various components, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I mean, I understand people saying that the audible differences between amps, or CD players, or whatever, are subtle, but headphones?!

 

[rds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yup. Something I've learned from time here is to look past the glowing "night and day", "blows away"-type reviews. In my experience, the differences have been slight, and often barely noticeable. SQ wise, I've found the HD555, AD700, and K701 to each be great phones; I've just preferred this or that a little more in each. But to my ears, they're 99% identical, and any is perfectly capable of being used to rock out.

If hd555s and k701s sound 99% identical there's something very wrong with your system or hearing.

 

[lucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif If hd555s and k701s sound 99% identical there's something very wrong with your system or hearing.

See above about conflating subjective perceptions with objective ones. I can distinguish one phone from the other easily, but I don't consider one to be a vast improvement over the other. If you do, that's cool.

 

[rds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif See above about conflating subjective perceptions with objective ones. I can distinguish one phone from the other easily, but I don't consider one to be a vast improvement over the other. If you do, that's cool.

I'm not conflating anything. It's statistics. If those sound almost identical to you then your experience is an extreme outlier. ...maybe you're saying I should add psychological or neurological problems to hearing and equipment problems

?

Also, if you can't back up anything you say then why even say it?
I'm not sure where your philosophy comes from but just because experience is subjective doesn't mean it's impossible to reach any conclusions or points of agreement.

 

[lucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not conflating anything. It's statistics.

You're still trying to frame your subjective opinion as an objective one. Why is it so difficult to accept that we may not rank two headphones the same way?

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can distinguish one phone from the other easily, but I don't consider one to be a vast improvement over the other.

Wait, that's a different issue. I think maybe you need to be more clear in what you're saying. You said that the differences between certain phones are "slight" or "barely noticeable," and that they are "99% identical." Most people would interpret this as meaning you think they basically sound the same. Now it sounds like you think they sound different, but you don't consider one to be a significant improvement over the other. That's a different issue, and the confusion on everybody's part is due to some careless language on your part and the fact that this thread keeps going back and forth between sound differences and levels of improvement.

Anyway, just trying to help clarify things.

 

[lucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wait, that's a different issue. I think maybe you need to be more clear in what you're saying. You said that the differences between certain phones are "slight" or "barely noticeable," and that they are "99% identical." Most people would interpret this as meaning you think they basically sound the same. Now it sounds like you think they sound different, but you don't consider one to be a significant improvement over the other. That's a different issue, and the confusion on everybody's part is due to some careless language on your part and the fact that this thread keeps going back and forth between sound differences and levels of improvement. Anyway, just trying to help clarify things.

No confusion on my part; I find both are 99% similar in their reproduction of music. That doesn't mean I can't tell them apart or prefer one from the other. But it does mean that I think one's as good as the other, and that the primary difference for me is of preference. This isn't any different from what I've been saying throughout the thread.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif No confusion on my part; I find both are 99% similar in their reproduction of music. That doesn't mean I can't tell them apart or prefer one from the other. But it does mean that I think one's as good as the other, and that the primary difference for me is of preference. This isn't any different from what I've been saying throughout the thread.

Are you a politician?

You've said that they are "99% similar" and also that you can distinguish them apart "easily." To me, this is somewhat contradictory. But maybe you just have an acute sense of hearing, or "99% similar" means something different to you and me. Whatever, we're probably arguing about semantics now.

 

[lucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you a politician? You've said that they are "99% similar" and also that you can distinguish them apart "easily." To me, this is somewhat contradictory. But maybe you just have an acute sense of hearing, or "99% similar" means something different to you and me. Whatever, we're probably arguing about semantics now.

I really do think it comes down to semantics. It's like when people talk about "night and day" differences between this phone and that, or this amp and that. In the end, we all have our own appreciations of the gear, and we can acknowledge that without trying to diminish each others' perspectives. I may prefer one phone to another, but you'll never find me trying to convince someone who prefers the other phone must have bad ears or bad gear or whatever other needless insults we see on the forums. :O)

 

[rds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif I really do think it comes down to semantics. It's like when people talk about "night and day" differences between this phone and that, or this amp and that. In the end, we all have our own appreciations of the gear, and we can acknowledge that without trying to diminish each others' perspectives. I may prefer one phone to another, but you'll never find me trying to convince someone who prefers the other phone must have bad ears or bad gear or whatever other needless insults we see on the forums. :O)

You are very sloppy with your use of language. You said "they are 99% identical" and now you say that you meant you don't rank one higher than the other.

Also, it's true you don't talk about bad gear and hearing, but rather you constantly insinuate that other people's impressions are hyperbole and are just in their heads so to speak.

Anyways, I'm not trying to insult anyone but I really believe that if the hd555 and k701 sound 99% identical something has gone seriously wrong somewhere between the recording studio and your keyboard.

 

[lucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are very sloppy with your use of language. You said "they are 99% identical" and now you say that you meant you don't rank one higher than the other.

I meant both things. Let me know if you ever find acceptance in the fact that not everyone will agree with your perspectives on headphones (or anything). :O)