[JoshK]

So has anyone compared any of the Lavry DA10/Aqvox/Benchmark Dac1 or any hi-end DAC with anything other than headphone setup? I know this may seem as blasphemy on this site but headphones aren't exactly the greatest for comparison in my mind. They do well in some comparisons, but not some others that are important to speaker listening.

I like this site for having done some comparisons of these DACs, which most haven't, but so far I have only read a couple of comparisons that were mostly headphone based as I understood them. I am very interested in the Aqvox and the Lavry and was looking for some descriptions of the differences.

Cheers,
josh

 

[Veniogenesis]

Iron Dreamer has a nice comparison review of the three DACs:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=161032

He uses both speakers and headphones during his tests. Take a look.

Actually, now that I think about it, you've probably read that review already... lol

Cheers,
Venio

 

[Alex M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshK So has anyone compared any of the Lavry DA10/Aqvox/Benchmark Dac1 or any hi-end DAC with anything other than headphone setup?

They used speakers for this review.

 

[akwok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex M They used speakers for this review.

And bias!

I kid, I kid.

 

[thomaspf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex M They used speakers for this review. Quote: Originally Posted by Ori One of them allows selecting a clock source between the internal oscillator and the transport clock (with two options, wide and narrow PLL filters). Trying all combinations, I was saddened to see that the cheap transport had the less jittery clock than the internal oscillator of the Lavry, yielding a better spatial precision when on the “narrow PLL” setting vs. the “crystal” setting. Good clocks are the real foundations of digital sound reproduction and the Lavry misses that essential piece of the puzzle. The Zhaolu offered an unbelievable soundstage precision, left to right and front to back as well. Perhaps a better transport would produce better sound with the Lavry, but the Zhaolu seemed immune to transport jitter altogether. No options to confuse you - what a great concept!

Biased? Hmm, this sounds completely wrong.

The Zhaolu has no jitter rejection other then the receiver which is about 350ps. The Lavry in narrow mode is just like a Zhaolu with only the receiver chip as a dejitter stage passing through a lot of the jitter form the source. Wide mode uses an asynchronous sample rate converter like the DAC1, and Crystal provides the high quality synchronous reclocking.

I wonder how Ori came to this result? Measurements?

Cheers

Thomas

 

[akwok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomaspf Biased? Hmm, this sounds completely wrong. The Zhaolu has no jitter rejection other then the receiver which is about 350ps. The Lavry in narrow mode is just like a Zhaolu with only the receiver chip as a dejitter stage passing through a lot of the jitter form the source. Wide mode uses an asynchronous sample rate converter like the DAC1, and Crystal provides the high quality synchronous reclocking. I wonder how Ori came to this result? Measurements? Cheers Thomas

Are you saying it isn't biased? Biased sounds completely correct to me,

 

[thomaspf]

I don't know actually know. If these stunning findings are based on by ear determination then I would they are biased. If they are measured I would assume the DA10 had a defect.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[giovanni]

I have done some testing of the DAC01 and DA10 this w/e with a speaker set-up and could hardly tell the difference between the two, to be more precise, I could not hear any difference at all. I will do more listening next w/e, but I suspect my findings will be the same.

Here in my apt, with my headphones, I can't hear any difference either between my Mac's analog output and the DA10's, regardless of whether I am using Apple Lossless files or the mac's CD-Rom. Same applied with the DAC01. I've made some comments at AC in the USBTD thread.

gio

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by giovanni I have done some testing of the DAC01 and DA10 this w/e with a speaker set-up and could hardly tell the difference between the two, to be more precise, I could not hear any difference at all. I will do more listening next w/e, but I suspect my findings will be the same.

Are you using any sort of power conditioning? What amp and headphones? Coax or Optical digital connection? Quote:

Originally Posted by giovanni Here in my apt, with my headphones, I can't hear any difference either between my Mac's analog output and the DA10's, regardless of whether I am using Apple Lossless files or the mac's CD-Rom. Same applied with the DAC01. I've made some comments at AC in the USBTD thread.

Something is wrong with your setup or you have permanent hearing damage. I don't mean this as an arrogant comment, but with something like the analog out of a MAC there is a HUGE difference moving to the Lavry. Even with the Benchmark you should notice an improvement... though I don't really like the Benchmark all that much. The fact that you think that the DA10 and the DAC1 sound the same is rather disturbing as I don't think I have heard two DACs that sound more different... though my DA10 can start to sound DAC1-like when plugged right into the wall. I've found that it responds very well to power conditioning.

One more question... Do you have the Lavry on Crystal lock?

 

[giovanni]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Are you using any sort of power conditioning? What amp and headphones? Coax or Optical digital connection?Something is wrong with your setup or you have permanent hearing damage. I don't mean this as an arrogant comment, but with something like the analog out of a MAC there is a HUGE difference moving to the Lavry. Even with the Benchmark you should notice an improvement... though I don't really like the Benchmark all that much. The fact that you think that the DA10 and the DAC1 sound the same is rather disturbing as I don't think I have heard two DACs that sound more different... though my DA10 can start to sound DAC1-like when plugged right into the wall. I've found that it responds very well to power conditioning. One more question... Do you have the Lavry on Crystal lock?

No power conditioning.
MPX3 (with various options)
hd580

No offense taken at all, in fact I welcome your comments (and surprised I only got one so far) because I am also very surprised not only because otherwise I've read nothing but bs around here about these dacs, but also because when I tested the USBTD I did notice a very clear difference from the Mac's analog out (as I believe I mentioned).

My thought still is that something is wrong. But note that I tested the dac also with my pioneer elite 47ai (something) and there was no difference betweent the Pio dac and the Lavry.....

But give me some real suggestions please: power conditioning, cables and stuff like that will not make or break such findings.

My hearing is great.

 

[giovanni]

By the way I understand that DACs impact on sound is certainly easier to hear on speakers' set-up, in fact I have heard stronger statements than that. Now, my own testing with speakers was a bit quick, I am planning to take more time next round, with more carefully set-up stuff and things.

But I tell you, for my headphones set-up, the USBTD is the winner, hence I am thinking that the USB signal out of the Mac as well as its implementation in the DAC are more effective than the digital out through A/X into a Lavry or Dac01. At least this is what I have found so far.

 

[giovanni]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox One more question... Do you have the Lavry on Crystal lock?

yes.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by giovanni But give me some real suggestions please: power conditioning, cables and stuff like that will not make or break such findings.

I beg to differ. It was a night and day difference with the Lavry straight out of the wall and with it connected to my PS Audio UPC200. Forum members looser101 and pixel pusher were also there and it was Renato [looser101] who first commented on how the Lavry sounded different when we were listening to it [not connected to the conditioner]. After some frenzied swapping of components we realized that it was the power conditioner.

On a similar note, we did some comparisons with different coaxial cables and optical cables when I first got the unit and generally found coaxial to be preferable. We settled on a custom cable that is around a foot long and uses a 75ohm coax line to very simple 75ohm rca plugs.

From the sound of things and your preference of USBTD I would think that the culprit here is the digital connection on your laptop... I've hooked my Lavry up to my computer [onboard sound] and my squeezebox and my Eastsound CD player. Transports and digital outputs make a huge difference. The squeezebox sounds great and the Eastsound is amazing as a transport... the computer... well, I wouldn't use it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by giovanni But I tell you, for my headphones set-up, the USBTD is the winner, hence I am thinking that the USB signal out of the Mac as well as its implementation in the DAC are more effective than the digital out through A/X into a Lavry or Dac01. At least this is what I have found so far.

Yep, that is what it is looking like.

I can't figure the Pioneer out though... unless it just has a really bad digital output. Strange.

The MPX3 is a great amp, so no problem there... and while the HD580 is not my thing, I would think that it is revealing enough to at least hear a difference.

 

[giovanni]

I can't figure the Pioneer out though... unless it just has a really bad digital output. Strange.
QUOTE]

or a analog out (internal dac) that is on par with the Lavry! But I agree, it is strange.

I will try this a bit more, may be switching between optical and coaxial.

gio

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by giovanni or a analog out (internal dac) that is on par with the Lavry! But I agree, it is strange.

Yup, it's possible. My Eastsound comes very close in that regard and it is more a matter of flavour.