[paradoxper]

Quote:

You can´t really argue him being innocent whatsoever... When he got his 40 % survival chance verdict for his cancer his doctor asked him in 1996 if he used doping. He answered he used steroids, epo, hormons, testosteron and more.

Allegedly. There's also claims by former friends of Lance's that were there when the Doctor asked if he'd used steroids of any type.
 
An overwhelming amount of the U.S. team as well as Lance's former friends who were also cyclist were all busted for doping, seems hard to believe
in such an environment training with all your buddies (who ended up getting caught for doping) that somehow you're the only innocent one.
 
But still, it's possible and there doesn't seem to be any conclusive evidence against Lance. With exception of him withdrawing from the fight of accusations,
which is somehow admission of guilt. Somehow all his buddies were conclusively caught doping, yet, he got away with it. That's pretty unbelievable as well.

 

[oqvist]

There is conclusive evidence that has even given to the public audience though.

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

There is conclusive evidence that has even given to the public audience though.

What conclusive evidence, exactly? 

 

[devgru]

Quote:

Allegedly. There's also claims by former friends of Lance's that were there when the Doctor asked if he'd used steroids of any type.
 
An overwhelming amount of the U.S. team as well as Lance's former friends who were also cyclist were all busted for doping, seems hard to believe
in such an environment training with all your buddies (who ended up getting caught for doping) that somehow you're the only innocent one.
 
But still, it's possible and there doesn't seem to be any conclusive evidence against Lance. With exception of him withdrawing from the fight of accusations,
which is somehow admission of guilt. Somehow all his buddies were conclusively caught doping, yet, he got away with it. That's pretty unbelievable as well.

I went pro in the early 90s for a brief period during the LeMond era. I doped and used test. I don't know any elite roadies who didn't, but I am sure there were some. Indurain was a freak of nature and was very critical of doping.
 
Friends that were there during the admittance "interview" in the hospital? I would love to see a link for that. AFAIK the only witnesses were family and med-personnel; specifically nurses and the doc.
 
Lance likely thought his cycling career was over due to the diagnosis of ATC. Of course you'd be 100% forthright when you life is at stake. Lance was motivated to lie, but I don't see the motivation to accuse Lance of statements he (alleged by Armstrong) never made. Everyone is lying but Lance?
 
Further, I have no problem with doping as it was endemic in the sport and is to this day. He beat a bunch of dopers 7x, but I abhor the pious attitude.

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

I went pro in the early 90s for a brief period during the LeMond era. I doped and used test. I don't know any elite roadies who didn't, but I am sure there were some. Indurain was a freak of nature and was very critical of doping.
 
Friends that were there during the admittance "interview" in the hospital? I would love to see a link for that. AFAIK the only witnesses were family and med-personnel; specifically nurses and the doc.
 
Lance likely thought he cycling career was over due to the diagnosis of ATC. Of course you'd be 100% forthright when you life is at stake. Lance was motivated to lie, but I don't see the rationale to accuse Lance of statements he (alleged by Armstrong) never made.
 
Further, I have no problem as it was endemic in the sport and is to this day. I abhor the pious attitude.

The argument that "everyone" was doing it to me, is understandable. Of course, others would immediately disagree. Which is where 
conclusive evidence is needed. 
 
Link
 
I still find it impressive (if again under the assumption he did use), that there were others who used as well. Yet he won 7 Tours.

 

[JakeJack_2008]

First of all, read the whole report which is available online. Second read this. Armstrong’s Wall of Silence Fell Rider by Rider .... Detailed testimony from riders like David Zabriskie helped the United States Anti-Doping Agency's case against Armstrong. .... But, Landis said, it was time. “Lance Armstrong never came up,” Messick said in an interview last week. “But he did make a comment on the Mafia. He said, When you’re in the Mafia and you get caught and go to jail, you keep your mouth shut, and the organization takes care of your family. In cycling, you’re expected to keep your mouth shut when you test positive, but you become an outcast. Everyone just turns their back on you.” Antidoping officials on multiple continents had pursued Armstrong for years, in often quixotic efforts that died at the wall of silence his loyal teammates built around him as the sport’s global king. Armstrong kept the dark side of his athletic success quiet, investigators and cyclists said, by using guile and arm-twisting tactics that put fear in those who might cross him. But the lunch conversation between Landis and Messick would eventually be seen as the first significant crack in Armstrong’s gilded foundation, a critical turning point in antidoping officials’ quest to penetrate the code of secrecy that endured in cycling. It set in motion a series of events that led to the stark revelation that Lance Armstrong, the seven-time Tour de France winner, and his United States Postal Service team were engaged in what antidoping officials called the most sophisticated doping program in history — one covered up by cyclists who banded together to protect themselves, one another and the ugly, deceitful underbelly of the sport. .... “Ultimately, I was living a lie,” Barry said last week, adding that he should have been honest from the start, but he felt trapped because he would have lost his job for coming clean. “I guess I have to apologize to Floyd for calling him a liar,” Barry said. “Because he was telling the truth the whole time.” From http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/sports/how-armstrongs-wall-fell-one-rider-at-a-time.html?ref=sports&_r=0

 

[devgru]

And Landis wins one Tour and was stripped (rightfully so) for a high T/E ratio. No questionable hematocrit. Doping is of a much greater benefit aerobically than AAS (testosterone).
 

 

[devgru]

Quote:

The argument that "everyone" was doing it to me, is understandable. Of course, others would immediately disagree. Which is where 
conclusive evidence is needed. 
 
Link
 
I still find it impressive (if again under the assumption he did use), that there were others who used as well. Yet he won 7 Tours.

He was mentally gifted to ride through the pain. He was never the guy with the highest VO2 max, and I have no doubt that he would be relatively unknown to the public w/o the doping and gear. Floyd Landis' career is a suitable analog. He would be unknown w/o the AAS. Maybe you dope once and win a Tour, and then you're forced into a vicious cycle. Epogen was just beginning to be used when I left the sport.
 
Michelle Ferrari was THE doping master. They are inextricably linked (Ferrari and doping). Nobody came to Ferrari for any other reason but to dope/drug and mask.

 

[devgru]

I hadn't heard of the text message:
 
After Leipheimer testified to the federal grand jury, he said, Armstrong sent his wife a text message saying, “Run, don’t walk,” which Leipheimer took as a threat.
 
A real class act.
 

 

[devgru]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/zone-lance-armstrong-bully-downfall-article-1.1188512
 
The apologists have left the building.
 

 

[micrors4]

They need to stop going at him, and the US can't just strip him of his titles that right belongs to race officials.  This guy has always been attacked and honestly they need to stop, if you ever watched a Tour de France race when he was in it you would see that he is not the fastest rider but he has the experience and he knows how to use strategies to win against in experienced riders.  You would never see him riding way ahead of the pack, instead he would just hang back and use little effort and when the time came he would move ahead but not go for the win.  In the mountains is where he excelled and he would destroy everyone because he had saved himself and not got into a sprint at the end of every race.

 

[Magick Man]

He was the best doper in a sport full of dopers. I'm not seeing a reason for outrage. If they all cheat, just let them have at it.

 

[Ser182]

This what I can't get.
1. Still no positive test that have not been over turned because of lack of evidence.
2. All old team mates have been banned and have been given reduced bans for their testimony.

Again he still does not have def positive test. Point number two is why I don't believe one thing the USADA. Unlike baseball they don't have that one true witness with nothing to gain. Each witness were again given reduced bans. So they are not creditable. How can they be!
So with the 1000 page report all it was he said she said. Not one lab result that was conclusive. NOT ONE!
So after 13years I think he was just tired of defending him self. I would be too. Just a witch hunt

I will still support his live strong. He did more for cancer patients than anybody. He was not just cyclist. He is a survivor.

 

[JakeJack_2008]

UCI banned the scoundrel Lance Armstrong for life. http://news.yahoo.com/1-cycling-armstrongs-tour-titles-stripped-says-uci-111059090--spt.html

 

[Kirosia]

Competitive sports seems partly based on how good a person is at not getting caught. Do I agree with PEDs, HGH, etc., and how athletes refuse to admit use? No. If I was in a position to earn millions of dollars and widespread fame, the caveat being sticking needles of (relatively safe) chem in my bum? Do do do...