LAiV Harmony HP2A Headphone Amp

[cadsh]

I was not expecting such a sound improvement from the preamp section.

 

[zeluiz22]

I wanted to chime in on my experience so far with the Laiv HP2A. It's been a little over a month and I would have to say it will probably be a permanent fixture in my system. Starting in the Summer I started switching out my tube gear for solid state beginning with a Pass 150.8 amp driving Zu Definition Speakers (high efficiency with integrated sub array). I tried multiple preamp set ups, but sound presentation seemed to be 2D with lack of engagement/connection to music. The only set up that had me satisfied was the DAC with volume control direct into Amp (lots of depth, width & detail). On Nelson Pass's DIY threads, I asked questions and lots of input focused on speaker sensitivity and having way too much gain in the system. Possibly other factors, but I started looking at low to unity gain options. After seeing that the Harmony DAC was receiving a large amount of positive reviews from a diverse reviewer set, I saw that they had a unity gain preamp that doubled as a HP amp. The other aspect of the design and company that was attractive was the modular upgrade/ repair support approach. Attracted by the 30 day trial guarantee, I picked up the piece.

I was impressed by great pre-buy Q&A responses (input on system matching, etc.), fast international delivery, and representatives following up with me to see how set up went and initial SQ impressions. This was refreshing, since there's been only a few wholistic customer positive experiences I've experienced with (even domestic US) audio outfits (Zu being one of them). Out of the box, I let the unit warm for a few hours. Normally I would not sit for any critical listening until a few days or more break in. However, upon listening the first day, the presentation was extremely deep, wide and had a greater sense of recording space detail. In addition my wife , who earlier felt that the system lost some magic when I got rid of the tubes, took notice while walking through the common area. Without me soliciting a response, she felt more of the realism and emotional impact that she felt with the older system playing some of her favorite recordings. At this point, the SQ has consistently improved over the weeks with lots of low end detail and control. Midrange is much better than any previous setups (direct DAC to amp the closest). Seems more detail and realism within vocal registers (Johnny Cash gravely vocal tones). Wind instrument presentation is more pronounced (blowing through the reed details). So I'm done at this point for a proper preamp fit. I'll probably look at their DAC in the future to complete the system.

Running at 0db unity into an Audio Analogue Absolute, which was Weng’s suggestion at Laiv. Share your experience. The headphone amp also draws out so much detail and dynamics- unlike anything I’ve heard.

I also replaced an MSB Premier (with power base and their fiber optic USB converter ) with the Harmony. Just needed to prove to myself that my nagging suspicion that you get little for those extra thousands , or tens of thousands.

I’m getting better results from the Laiv setup. From $30k to 2700 (or 5400 for the stack).

No more astro priced dacs for me. I’ve been through so many of them, from Weiss to Dave to DCS to to MSB. MSB’s digital director push was the last straw. Just felt like an $14k put-on. Only the Tambaqui stands out to me as playing as well as the Laiv stack.

 

[NRW1]

Running at 0db unity into an Audio Analogue Absolute, which was Weng’s suggestion at Laiv. Share your experience. The headphone amp also draws out so much detail and dynamics- unlike anything I’ve heard.

I also replaced an MSB Premier (with power base and their fiber optic USB converter ) with the Harmony. Just needed to prove to myself that my nagging suspicion that you get little for those extra thousands , or tens of thousands.

I’m getting better results from the Laiv setup. From $30k to 2700 (or 5400 for the stack).

No more astro priced dacs for me. I’ve been through so many of them, from Weiss to Dave to DCS to to MSB. MSB’s digital director push was the last straw. Just felt like an $14k put-on. Only the Tambaqui stands out to me as playing as well as the Laiv stack.

I'm pretty much with you with respect to pricing and diminishing returns. After purchasing the Pass X150.8, I had a BAT VK-80 and demoed a Pass XP-12. Unfortunately recording space presence and details were muted compared to direct DAC with volume control plugged into the amp. Granted the direct DAC to amp was lean on dynamics but most of what I was after was there. Had considered demoing the Pass XP-22 (2-box system for $10k), but after not getting close with their $6k piece, thought it prudent to wait. I've listened to the higher end Pass equipment being driven by Bartok or Esoteric but experiences were not enough to lay out large sums. I have to say after being in this hobby for about 40 years, I'm at a point where I'm close to my "retirement" system. After living with the HP2A for about 2 months, I need to pull the trigger and get the Harmony DAC (swap out the Topping D90LE and D70 Pro Octo), to bring the system close to completion.

 

[arijitroy2]

So I got to audition the LAiV stack this weekend, brought over my cans E3, Charybdis plus some headphones the dealer had, Austrian Audio Composer, DCA stealth, Magna. He was missing the Immanis and Susvaras plus the unveiled headphones in his shop that day.

Also bought my portable stack, Cayin N7->RCA->Enleum HPA-23RMH to compare.

Music was fed from Roon using Lumin D3. My cans sounded so very good in this stack, so effortless and the staging was bigger on all the fronts than my stack. Not by a lot by enough to put a grin on my face. I was able to turn the volume all the way up to, I think it was -14db, and still no problem.

I wanted to check if I could use my Cayin N7 line out to the amp directly to test, but since he didnt have that extra EXT box for RCA inputs and no cable for 4.4mm to XLR, we couldn't do that.

I haven't been able to stop thinking about the sound this stack produced. I really want this amp now, but my hesitation is would the DAC in my N7 be equally good as the stack itself.

 

[]eep]

There's a new written review on high fidelity pl
https://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-1444&lang=en

 

[zeluiz22]

I now have the LExt phono running into the HP2A. Playing into the preamp (both XLR and especially headphones) it does exactly what the HP2A does with a digital source. Same dynamics and hyper revealing sound.

Does things to music other phono states I have had (PS audio and Gold Note) could only dream of).

 

[]eep]

I now have the LExt phono running into the HP2A. Playing into the preamp (both XLR and especially headphones) it does exactly what the HP2A does with a digital source. Same dynamics and hyper revealing sound.

Does things to music other phono states I have had (PS audio and Gold Note) could only dream of).

Which Gold Note did you have?
And which cartridge do you use?

I have the PH10+PS10 and I only use a silver wire step up transformer on the MM input. That's always hard to improve on. And on the other input on the LExt I have a EAR834 clone with seperate PS, also with the same SUT. Yes I have two of them. One is my original from 1990, the other is a bit newer I purchased 2ndH more recently. These are quite expensive. Almost the same as the Audio Note AN-S4 (only the rear is similar to the S2 with the high-low switch).
I just found a price for the S4... OMG $6k?

Anyway, this LExt phono is not for me since I need three MM inputs. I really hoped it would have an extra RCA input for an external phono but it doesn't. But I'm really curious how it does.

 

[sygnus21]

Does things to music other phono states I have had (PS audio and Gold Note) could only dream of).

Not a criticism, but an observation we all fall into.... the honeymoon phase where the newest toy is the greatest thing since sliced bread

Anyway, enjoy the new hardware. I'm still in my honeymoon phase with my less than month old Pontus 15th that replaced my Pontus 12th-1

 

[zeluiz22]

Which Gold Note did you have?
And which cartridge do you use?

I have the PH10+PS10 and I only use a silver wire step up transformer on the MM input. That's always hard to improve on. And on the other input on the LExt I have a EAR834 clone with seperate PS, also with the same SUT. Yes I have two of them. One is my original from 1990, the other is a bit newer I purchased 2ndH more recently. These are quite expensive. Almost the same as the Audio Note AN-S4 (only the rear is similar to the S2 with the high-low switch).
I just found a price for the S4... OMG $6k?

Anyway, this LExt phono is not for me since I need three MM inputs. I really hoped it would have an extra RCA input for an external phono but it doesn't. But I'm really curious how it does.

I had the PH-10 also with the PS-10. Afterwards, the PS Audio Stellar. Table is a TEchnics 1000R, which I am in the process of selling. Current cartridges are a Hana Blue and a Koetsu Urushi Tsugaru. You’re right that the phono is only MC.

The High FIdelity (pl) review describes the HP2A exactly as I hear it. Revealing of good and bad recordings. He writes its “selective” but what he means is that it will expose flaws in bad recordings and showcase good recordings. That’s what I hear. He compares it to the DCS Lina in that regard. I didn’t like the Lina and didn’t have that experience with it.

 

[]eep]

I had the PH-10 also with the PS-10. Afterwards, the PS Audio Stellar. Table is a TEchnics 1000R, which I am in the process of selling. Current cartridges are a Hana Blue and a Koetsu Urushi Tsugaru. You’re right that the phono is only MC.

The High FIdelity (pl) review describes the HP2A exactly as I hear it. Revealing of good and bad recordings. He writes its “selective” but what he means is that it will expose flaws in bad recordings and showcase good recordings. That’s what I hear. He compares it to the DCS Lina in that regard. I didn’t like the Lina and didn’t have that experience with it.

I need to retip my Koetsu Urushi Wajima. Last time I asked in an audio retailer I got that same look: "difficult, problem, buzz off" didn't know a good retipper, poo poo'd some other that proposed and then cited me a price of €800. Now I have several Chinese cartridges that cost the same with Shibata stylus on Be and saphire cantilever and silver wire coils. I'm very happy with them.

I'm not a fan of Technics turntables. Not the most musical. And I really don't like the arm. I found out, now that I have 3 on the same TT, the arm does make a huge difference.

Also I'm pretty happy with the Gold Note PH10+PS10 because it sounds much better with my SUT. That's why I can't or don't want to use an MC input.

It's nice to hear your experience.

 

[OrionDayz]

Anyone using RME ADI2DAC with the HP2A going into Susvara? Looking for suggestions on optimising the settings on the RME to optimise the sound for Susvara.

 

[Vangelis]

This is a long shot, but has anyone compared the HP2A to a Burson Voyager deluxe or the Enleum AMP23?

 

[TheEman]

Anyone using RME ADI2DAC with the HP2A going into Susvara? Looking for suggestions on optimising the settings on the RME to optimise the sound for Susvara.

Yes, I have this pairing with Susvara and it sounds wonderful. For RME, I use SD Sharp DA filter, set volume to 0 dB, auto ref off, ref level to +13 dBu and lock volume to on. This ensures RME ADI-2 DAC fs outputs its full 6.93 V into HP2A, and I just control volume with the beautiful HP2A remote

 

[OrionDayz]

Yes, I have this pairing with Susvara and it sounds wonderful. For RME, I use SD Sharp DA filter, set volume to 0 dB, auto ref off, ref level to +13 dBu and lock volume to on. This ensures RME ADI-2 DAC fs outputs its full 6.93 V into HP2A, and I just control volume with the beautiful HP2A remote

Great thank you. With these settings where or what range are you setting your volume on the HP2A with the Susvara? I'm asking because I need to set it at -20db and am wondering if it's too high or low for the susvara. Using the 4-pin XLR balanced output.

I'm also curious how you calculated 6.93 V? Attached this page from the manual. Thank you.

 

[TheEman]

Great thank you. With these settings where or what range are you setting your volume on the HP2A with the Susvara? I'm asking because I need to set it at -20db and am wondering if it's too high or low for the susvara. Using the 4-pin XLR balanced output.

I'm also curious how you calculated 6.93 V? Attached this page from the manual. Thank you.

Yeah, I’m usually about -20 db on HP2A, though with softly-mastered stuff I can go as high as -8 db. If you’re typically around -20 db, that means you have 20 db of headroom available for voltage swings. Or if you want to do some crazy eq, no problem. This amp gives you great headroom provided you feed it some high voltage for Susvara.

Correction: 6.90 V (not 6.93 V) at full XLR output.

The RME manual is not a great resource for understanding this particular concept well (but the manual is great for pretty much everything else).

See the attached Excel file for a breakdown of voltage output and ideal SNR (green highlighted columns) for all the RME products: the RME ADI-2 DAC fs is in the orange section, and look at the XLR columns. I did NOT create this; I found it on the RME forum. XLR is +6 dBu relative to RCA, hence the +19 dBu value in the XLR columns. Note: you cannot set +19 dBu on the RME device - if you set ref level to +13 dBu you are getting +19 dBu from the XLR out.

The "Pro" RME devices can output a whopping 12.28 V maximum! And yes, the HP2A can accept this voltage without clipping, as the input sensitivity of HP2A is 16 V. I don't know of any other amp that has this outrageously high input sensitivity. LAiV made this decision to ensure compatibility with almost any connected device (I don't know of a DAC that can output 16 V, but a preamp could very well).

All that said, the decibel difference between 12.28 V of the "Pro" RME devices and the 6.90 V of the ADI-2 DAC fs is only a 5 db increase (20*log(12.28/6.904) = 5 db). So I do not believe it is worth the money to step-up to the Pro devices for only a 5 db increase in headroom.