Lack of bass in AKG's

[Neruda]

xander, what I've found is that the K401's and the K501's have the same amount of bass, but the bass on the K401's is looser...

 

[Xander]

Neruda, that thought crossed my mind.. My first perception was that the upper bass on the K401s was a bit on the tight side, which makes the lower bass stand out a bit more, although I'm not quite sure.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally posted by Neruda Gloco, I ran those specs through an Ohm's law calculator, and it turned out to be 25mW if i did it correctly . Not a whole ton! That's because the .45V was apparently measured at 8 ohms.

Dang! Would it be safe to say i wont be able to drive high impedance cans, like senn 600's? How can you measure the threshold of what it can handle, impedance wise?

George

 

[kwkarth]

I just have one thing to say relative to this thread topic:

Lack of bass in AKG 501's.

Saying that the AKG K-501's lack in bass is like saying that Ety's lack in bass. They don't, it's just honest. The bass is not as forward as it is in the Sennheiser HD-580/600's, but neither is it bloated, flabby, loose or tubby as the Sennheiser's have been described by some.

Now, before any of you blow a gasket, the Senn's seem to only sound bloated, veiled, tubby, flabby, etc, when mated with a less than ideal amplifier. The same is true with the AKG-K501's. They only sound "boring" or thin when they're mated with a less than ideal amplifier.

The 501's bass goes all the way down to the sub basement when you're using the proper amp.

The Sennheiser's do not sound veiled or bloated when you're using the proper amp.

When using both cans with a proper amp, the Senns response is tilted slightly up on the bottom end and the AKG's are tilted up slightly on the top end.

Additionally, the AKG's have a broad but mild rise from about 75Hz to 300Hz of about 3dB that manifests itself as a mild but pleasant tube like warmth.

The Senn's have a mild suck-out from 6-8kHz which manifests itself as a politeness, i.e. it puts you back several rows in the hall, rather than in the front row.

THEY ARE BOTH GREAT HEADPHONES!!!

They both need a good amp to sound their best.

Happy listening!!

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally posted by kwkarth I just have one thing to say relative to this thread topic: Lack of bass in AKG 501's. The 501's bass goes all the way down to the sub basement when you're using the proper amp. They both need a good amp to sound their best. Happy listening!!

Hi Kwkarth,

Thanks for the input. I'll be receiving my JMT built amp sometime this week and cant wait to try it on my existing cans. I'm also planning on hitting two stores that i'm sure carry AKG's and Beyers and will lug the amp and a discman to test out some cans, like the 501's, if their available. Do you think a DIY amp, like JMT's, will drive the 501's with authority? or will i have to spring for a brand name amp, like the corda or creek?

George

 

[kwkarth]

Not being familiar with the JMT amp you're getting, I can't really say. The one Neruda got was a distinct improvement over the direct output from his PCDP, but we could both readily hear that the Creek SE was better in all respects, and that the SAC was yet another level better again. So, JMT is certainly capable of making an amp to properly drive the 501's with authority, but as I understand it, he makes it to your spec. It will be interesting to hear your iimpressions when you get the amp.

Best of luck and happy listening!!

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

The 501's bass goes all the way down to the sub basement when you're using the proper amp. The Sennheiser's do not sound veiled or bloated when you're using the proper amp. When using both cans with a proper amp, the Senns response is tilted slightly up on the bottom end and the AKG's are tilted up slightly on the top end. Additionally, the AKG's have a broad but mild rise from about 75Hz to 300Hz of about 3dB that manifests itself as a mild but pleasant tube like warmth. The Senn's have a mild suck-out from 6-8kHz which manifests itself as a politeness, i.e. it puts you back several rows in the hall, rather than in the front row. THEY ARE BOTH GREAT HEADPHONES!!! They both need a good amp to sound their best.

Very well said, and an excellent comparison, Kevin. I'm seriously considering that deal on the 501 ($120) just to check these out after all the hooplah

 

[Tim D]

I still find it astounding how AKG, Beyers, or Sennheiser, or heck any headphone manufacturer don't offer any suggestion, reccomendation, or information about proper amps. The question in my mind is how many of these headphones were made before many dedicated headphone amps even existed...and if so how did they ever properly test the headphones and with what reference. At the very least most speakers give simple guidelines for speaker amp requirements. It is interesting if you compare speakers vs headphones...MANY headphones were designed before dedicated headphone amps! Did these headphone manufacturers prophetically know that after-market dedicated headphone amps would come into play? And what did they use to drive their own headphone amps during prototype and testing phases.

For example Jan says that 120 ohms is supposedly a European standard for output impedance...so if Beyers supposedly designed their headphones for that output impedance, what is the mystery amp they used since surely the Corda didn't even exist before the Beyers, and many receivers jacks are typically greater than 120.

This isn't to say that I don't believe in the value of good amplification, I absolutely do. I've already said before how the DT931, Senn's, AKG501 have different characters in which they all want slightly different things in a headphone amp. I'm just wondering about the entire chicken and egg, headphone and headphone amp, question.

I used to think the Sennheisers HD600 dark...I know my Denon-370 is veiled compared to the output of my D/IO DAC, and also realize that some Headroom amps themselves have a reputation of having a "dark" tint from what some people have said. So now I wonder about headphone amps like the Sugden Headmaster.

On the otherhand, people also seem to be able to "acclimate" towards certain sound characteristics such that constrasts become very evident. Interestingly enough the maker of Wheatfield amps comments on how the Senns now sound "dark" compared to AKG1000, but obviously I believe they were favorites before than.

http://headwize.powerpill.org/ubb/sh...20011203005750

So on the otherhand while amps obviously do alter sound...I think it is very clear that when a professional amp maker or even veteran DIYer judges the sound of some headphones even with the capability of making good headphone amps...preference towards sonic characters STILL plays a major role in subjective evaluation.

So with preference in mind...you seem to really like the V6. I can tell you right now that the AKG501 has A LOT of different contrasting sonic characters from the V6...I happen to prefer AKG501 over V6 but you may not.

The unfortunate reality is...most headphones need quite good headphone amps to perform. And in the end, you will still have a preference.

In my perfect world I would own any headphone amp optimized for any headphone...since I cannot, I clearly need to limit things down towards preference. Course my reliance on preference is inversely proportional to my income. I'd own a heck of a lot of audio equipment if I could.

Finally back to the topic...if you absolutely LOVE V6 bass and ONLY V6 bass, you may or may not like AKG501 bass. On the otherhand the AKG501 can open up all sorts of new qualities in bass you haven't really noticed before in even your V6.

And about the JMT amp...I personally think a single 9V JMT amp is quite possibly stretching it for the AKG501. Oh and some of those Beyers probably want higher output impedance. Ahhh yes I know what a pain in the ass...or ear.

 

[PC Corp]

It's funny to here people complain all the "bass" stuff. C'mon, guys. You can get the AKG 501 for about $150. On the other hand, you can get a pair of good bookshelf speakers and speaker cables for $1500. Then again,your speakers probable won't go down to 40HZ. You got what you pay for. And for $150, don't complain, just enjoy your music.

And if you want some clean bass, maybe you should get the Sony R10 or RS1 or K1000 + a sub.

Let's face it, some $20K speakers won't even go down to 20HZ. And for me, mid bass is more important.

 

[mbriant]

The AKG 501's are the most power hungry phones I own. Straight out of a portable or reciever jack they definately sound thin and bass-shy. With a good quality/high power amp however, they seem the most accurate and nicely balanced to me.

 

[Neruda]

I guess I can live with kwkarth's assessment of the K501's and HD580's...maybe what we need here is a middle ground!

 

[Possum]

Quote:

It's funny to here people complain all the "bass" stuff. C'mon, guys. You can get the AKG 501 for about $150. On the other hand, you can get a pair of good bookshelf speakers and speaker cables for $1500. Then again,your speakers probable won't go down to 40HZ. You got what you pay for. And for $150, don't complain, just enjoy your music.

But that's the point of these forums. Discuss your headphones, what you like and what you don't like. Sure if you went into the "General Hardware" section of Anandtech, people would think you're annoying for constantly bringing up deficiencies in a good pair of headphones. But this is Head-Fi, where that kind of talk is what makes up a lot of the discussion.

Btw, for the record, I think the Head-Fi community is dozens of times better than the mix you get at AnandTech. There generally seems to be a friendlier and smarter bunch here.

 

[KurtW]

I agree with everything kwkarth said except the part about going down to the sub basement. Yes, I can feed them a 20 Hz signal and if I jack up the level enough I can hear it. If I jack it up some more I hear mostly doubling. I don't find this particularly troubling but they don't go as low as the Sony V6 for example.

The bottom line is this: whatever amp your using, if you think the bass is just right on the HD580/600or the V6, you'll think it's a little thin on the K501. If you think the bass is too heavy on the HD580/600 or V6, you might find the K501 to be just right. I personally would like something in between, so depending on the particilar recording I'm listening to I might prefer one over the other. Actually, I think the KCS35 probably has a better top to bottom balance than both the K501 and the HD580/600, as well as most Grados and Sonys for that matter! I'm not saying that I like it better overall, but in this aspect they're very good.

 

[Tim D]

Ahhh a middle ground between some qualities of K501 and Senns...hmmmm to me that sounds like...ummmm nevermind.

 

[Xander]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim D Ahhh a middle ground between some qualities of K501 and Senns...hmmmm to me that sounds like...ummmm nevermind.

Havent you got anything better to do?