[spritzer]

Electrostatics have next to no excursion, that's why they are so good as a driver principle.  Less movement equals a more linear transducer.  For Stax Pro bias the distance from diaphragm to stator is just 500um/0.5mm and the drivers will suffer serious damage at around 1200Vp-p.  Couple this with the very weak electrostatic force and the diaphragm just vibrates. 

 

[jerg]

Quote:

It's not about the amount of air moving, it's about the acoustic coupling characteristics. An open back headphone with sealed baffle plate must have seal ear chamber to prevent roll off at low frequencies, not matter the size the radiating surface.

How audeze managed to use velour pads without penalty in the sub-70Hz region, I don't know but can only suppose that the cushion is rather dense / velour backing is such acoustic cancellation is minimal.

Open back phones in a perforated baffle (ala HD800, HD6X0 are a different story, the earpad sealing properties are nowhere near as critical and you rather must use velour pads (with high sound absorption characteristics) to keep the lows and mids in good balance.

Another trick Audez'e employs is that they use double-sided tape to completely adhere the undersides of the pads to the baffle, which completes the seal very well. In fact I use the same trick for my Jergpad mod and it does wonders for the sub-bass extension for orthos I tried on (HE500 and HE400), basically not much audible roll-off until about 23 Hz or so; without this sub-bass trick the HE500s rolled off fast around 30 Hz, while HE400s did around 34 Hz.

 

[TMRaven]

I think I will apply two sided tape to the velour pads on my he-400 for the better seal.  The only thing is that I like to take them off every 3-4 months to wash them free of oil.  Gonna hate dealing with the sticky mess.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

I think I will apply two sided tape to the velour pads on my he-400 for the better seal.  The only thing is that I like to take them off every 3-4 months to wash them free of oil.  Gonna hate dealing with the sticky mess.

So far the dollar store double-sided tape I use held up well. I've taken off my pads numerous times for swap listening tests and pad cleaning and the tape still stays uniformly on the pads without any loss of adhesiveness.

 

[eltocliousus]

These are very interesting, I've always been apathetic towards 'high-end' headphones and electrostatic offerings having heard a variety, but these might just convert me and a few others if the bass has meat to it.

 

[Speedy Pedro]

I respect Stax but the their prices are eye-watering.
 
I listened to the Kingsound cans and amps at the Munich high end show recently. I liked the sound and even more so the price. The headphones do look quite cheap, however prices are very seductive indeed....
 
I am definitely keeping my eyes on these boys.
 
 
 
Pedro

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I got a reply from Drew of Moon Audio today.... he has no clue when he's getting these in.

The wait continues.

 

[spritzer]

Why on earth would you say that Stax prices are "eye watering"?  They have expensive models but the system comparable to the Emperor is the SRS-2170 and it's around 600$ with shipping from Japan. 

 

[Speedy Pedro]

Quote:

Why on earth would you say that Stax prices are "eye watering"?  They have expensive models but the system comparable to the Emperor is the SRS-2170 and it's around 600$ with shipping from Japan. 

 
First Japan has different current.
 
But more importantly, on what basis do you come up with SRS-2170 is the equivalent of the Kingsound that I heard?

 

[telecaster]

IMHO the 2170 blows the kingsound setup!

 

[livewire]

Quote:

IMHO the 2170 blows the kingsound setup!

 
As in "blows it away"? Have you heard both the Kingsound and the STAX rigs?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Big words from someone who doesn't own the Kingsound, and I totally doubt spent more than a short session with them.

I will wait until these actually arrive in people's hands and do impressions at home in a controlled space.

All I know is I'm interested in the bass.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

 
First Japan has different current.
 
But more importantly, on what basis do you come up with SRS-2170 is the equivalent of the Kingsound that I heard?

 
It's the voltage that is different, not the current.  The SRM-252S uses a normal 12VDC wall wart with a reversed polarity and I'll bet people have a large supply of those from old devices such as routers, switches etc.  You can just cut the cable somewhere and flip the conductors or buy something like this:
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Polarity-Convertor-Guitar-Pedal-Power-Switch-Positive-Centre-to-Negative-Centre-/280978091150?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item416b996c8e
 
They are similarly priced, that is all.  First impressions I'm getting of the Emperor are "dreadful" and "not so cheap POS" so I'd never class them at the same performance level without an in house audition. 

 

[Maxvla]

So you have a pair?

 

[Speedy Pedro]

Quote:

 
It's the voltage that is different, not the current.  The SRM-252S uses a normal 12VDC wall wart with a reversed polarity and I'll bet people have a large supply of those from old devices such as routers, switches etc.  You can just cut the cable somewhere and flip the conductors or buy something like this:
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Polarity-Convertor-Guitar-Pedal-Power-Switch-Positive-Centre-to-Negative-Centre-/280978091150?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item416b996c8e
 
They are similarly priced, that is all.  First impressions I'm getting of the Emperor are "dreadful" and "not so cheap POS" so I'd never class them at the same performance level without an in house audition. 

 
You really have not answered the key question that I asked. Why did you think SRS-2170 was the equivalent of the Kingsound that I heard? You did not even ask with which amplifier I hear it with? As such, I am afraid I am not particularly interested in engaging with you in debate in this thread.
 
However, for the benefit of others I shall expand a little bit on my experience. Yours may vary of course.
 
I have gone to the Munich High-end show for quite a few years now and this year I had other things on my mind besides electrostatic headphones. In the headphone space, I wanted to continue my quest for a headphone amp for my HD 800 and therefore I wanted to listen to the Bakoons for the first time. I listened also to other hedphone amps of course, including Auralic, Beyerdynamic, Senhheiser and Lake People. I was disappointed that I could not find the Malvalve Headamp Three this year. I really wanted to re-acquaint myself with it again. Oh well.
 
However, the Kingsound electrostatics caught my eye and having listened to a friends Stax system the previous weak (with a SRS-3170 amp, which actually is one model up from the SRS-2170) I decided to give it a try. It wasn't crowded so I stayed quite a while. I was really pleasantly surprised. It sounded rather nice and I tried both the M-10 (solid state) and M-20 amp (valve). I thought the M-20 was quite better than the M-10 and I also liked it QUITE MORE than the Stax (SRS-3170) I heard the previous week. One also seems to get much better value money with M-20 vs the SRS-3170 amp - at least visually!
 
The Stax SRS-3170 in the UK costs £1,200, which is about the same as the US$ 2,000 I was quoted for the Kingsound (US$500 for headphone, US$1500 for amp). So yes, I am intrigued by this system even though I was not in the market for electrostatics. This might change now, though.
 
I would encourage people to have a listen and as I said before, I shall keep and eye on this company. Hopefully the design of the headphone could improve to make it look a bit less cheaper (doesn't matter if the price goes a bit up) and I think we could have a real winner.
 
Is the M-20 system a poor man Stax Omega? I think that is the key question. I have listened to Omega's before but it is difficult for me to say how much % of Omega's performance you can find in an M-20. I would need to do more critical listening with both of them. It would be great if someone could this find out and report back to us - preferably somebody not already married to a Stax system.
 
If Kingsound could prove to be a good value alternative to Stax Omega, I think this would be good news for all of us.
 
Pedro