[endless402]

 
 
 

 
 
comments?
 
 
summary: specs and measurements don't show the whole picture
 
 
 
 
 

 

[jcx]

is there a transcript or article - no way I'm watching 10 min of video audiophile BS
 
formally a digital music file or hi rez ADC of a loaded amp output is "a measurement" - reducing to useful/significant  "single number" quantities is obviously going to lose a lot of information
 
but engineers have some fairly comprehensive measurements describing electrical signals and systems including load interactions which are trivial for single driver dynamic headphones

 

[nick_charles]

 
Quote:

  
 
summary: specs and measurements don't show the whole picture
 

 
Maybe, but Marantz stuff generally measures very well these days, take their latest budget CDP the CD5004, it measures **superbly**, so how do we know that the measurements are so unimportant. If it measured crap and was regarded by listeners (in DBT natch) as exceptional then you would have something interesting and vice versa...

 

[Kees]

Quote:

is there a transcript or article - no way I'm watching 10 min of video audiophile BS
 
formally a digital music file or hi rez ADC of a loaded amp output is "a measurement" - reducing to useful/significant  "single number" quantities is obviously going to lose a lot of information
 
but engineers have some fairly comprehensive measurements describing electrical signals and systems including load interactions which are trivial for single driver dynamic headphones

BS.
 
Ken definitely knows what he's talking about and makes some very valid points.
 
 

 

[endless402]

Quote:

 


 
Maybe, but Marantz stuff generally measures very well these days, take their latest budget CDP the CD5004, it measures **superbly**, so how do we know that the measurements are so unimportant. If it measured crap and was regarded by listeners (in DBT natch) as exceptional then you would have something interesting and vice versa...

 
yup agree. didnt say that measurements and specs are useless. just 1 part of the whole picture.
some ppl just fully rely on specs/measurements on this board.

 

[rroseperry]

He's fudging the question about measurements. He makes the point that reading the specs will not tell you how they design components or get components made to their specifications. But note that all the hand waving about music determining their design, doesn't mean their not using measurements of dynamic properties to make the equipment work. In fact he says that when he's talking about the synergy between amplifiers and speakers.

 
On second thought, I don't think he's being obscure, I think the OP is reading something into the video that isn't there. Mr. Ishiwara is talking about measurement and data here. What's interesting, imo, is how the company clearly has a institutional sound that they work towards and from the Marantz sets I've heard, it works.
 

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

I think he was talking about the popular culture (of audiophiles) who look at a spec sheet and assume if two amps have the same specs they should perform the roughly the same.  He was trying (and not trying, because he won't reviel company secrets) to give enough info for people to see that simple "static" measurements are not the whole story. 
 
Talking about discussing and managing supplier's improving subtle control over ion movement in an electrolytic cap is far from saying measurements don't matter. Measurements are but one facet of scientific investigation. I heard it as him saying that they include previous and strong agreement of subjective experience, coupled with a deep understanding of the physics of part, allows them to guide their way through the design process. 
 
You have to recognize that he knows the audience he's talking to is not technical enough to understand the complexities, and wants to get across the idea that they look into things more deeply and in a different way than their competitors. He wants to make sure people have the idea that they are special. Reading it as a minimization of the objective process in favor of a subjective one would be missing his point, IMO.
 
 

 

[Kees]

 ^  Exactly.

 

[EthanWiner]

I couldn't sit through more than half of it, but clearly this is marketing talk more than anything. Passion? Give me a break.
 
Here's one huge gap in his claim that measuring is static where music is dynamic: Test signals can be dynamic, or you can use music as a test source by nulling the input and output of a power amplifier to see what remains. Further, a steady 20 Hz square wave is highly dynamic because it goes from zero to full scale in a few microseconds, and repeats that excursion over and over. Nothing is more dynamic than that!
 
--Ethan

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Marantz are the only brand pasionate about sound!? Rubbish.

 

[TakashiMiike]

Now look, i'm a skeptic, but I don't think saying that this is just marketing rhetoric is a fair assessment, he's giving an interview and whether or not you know anything about engineering or not, you can tell this guy is passionate. I don't think this interviews purpose was to justify their entire approach via scientific and testable means, it is simply an interview about his work.
 
I rather enjoyed listening to him try to express his passion.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

He makes a clear claim that Marantz are the ones who are music lovers and who are passionate about music and others are not crazy about music. Marketing talk, but he is still happy to state what is clearly not true. What else is he prepared to claim with no evidence?

 

[Kees]

Quote:

...., but he is still happy to state what is clearly not true. 

You call him a liar?
I don't hear him say anything that's not true, but please enlighten me.
 
 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Kees, re-read my post and you will see what I regard as a false claim. Do you think that he can produce one shred of evidence to back up his claim other audio makers are not crazy about music?
 
(I am using parliamentary language in that I will not say he is a liar, but I will say what he says is false and not true)

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Kees, re-read my post and you will see what I regard as a false claim. Do you think that he can produce one shred of evidence to back up his claim other audio makers are not crazy about music?
 
(I am using parliamentary language in that I will not say he is a liar, but I will say what he says is false and not true)

You must be extremely biased, because he does not say that anywhere and you go through a lot of trouble to make him look bad.. He does imply thaty there are "so many other brands" that don't have the love for music as their driving force, and I think that is totally plausible, a lot of companies are only passionate about profit..
The point he is making is that he is sure that because all people working for Marantz have a passion for music they make better, more musical products.