[Pariah1]

So I got a Blue Circle Thingee for my first DAC. Yes, it's known as a USB/SPDIF converter, however 2 rave reviews (professional) said that as a stand alone DAC it was great as well.

Well it's not, it has silibant highs and a recessed midrange and overall thin, clinical, or hollow sound. It is also "quiet" as in underpowered, I have to turn up my amp louder than before to get to a reasonable listening volume. It does do everything else well though, but what it doesn't do well kills it.

So I'm looking for a new DAC and find these two of interest. Both are virtually the same price.

Few have heard the Pico yet, but based on the older model already love it. The Keces has good reviews all around.

One thing that worries me about the Pico is that it's USB powered again, like the Thingee. The Keces is not. So would the Pico be underpowered (quiet) as well and the Keces not? The Thingee was supposed to have an efficient means of drawing USB power and it's still quiet so I'm suspicious of such claims.

So is one of these clearly better than the other or are they both close to equally good? Which would you get and why?

Thanks!

PS: I like detailed and articulate/accurate over warm and natural anyday, so if one of these is more of the former than the latter that could be the deciding factor (I have read the Keces might be a little "dark").

 

[shamu144]

Hi,

I bought a Keces DA151 mk2 about one month ago and I have been frankly quite impressed with it, but again, I am totally new to computer based source, so it might just be that I am discovering the real potential of computers used as transports.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pariah1 (I have read the Keces might be a little "dark").

Can you please describe what you mean by dark sounding.

I have no experience with DAC in this price range but yes with CD players up to 2.000 euros.

The unit response to my hears and in my system is just plain flat, with excellent extension both in bass and treble response. It sounds very articulated, with lot's of air, gives a good a sense of pace and rythm with dark blackground between notes. It also provides noticeable weight in the notes. By no mean it is a thin sounding DAC.

It never sounds harsh or agressive, nor lack dynamic. I have to say I prefer laid back to upfront soundstage, and the DA151 mk2 certainly provides more of a laid back soundstage. But at the same time, the soudstage is wide, well structured and coherent.

The only weak point I can think of is the lack of details/resolutions, when comparing it with CDP costing 3 or 4 times its price. I miss some hall ambiance details, micro dynamic of instruments or sense of feeling the air around, that make the interpretations so real. But the rest of your system will have to be transparent to let you hear those details, and costing far more than this DAC.

Of course the soundstage do not reach the size of my current CDP, but none of the sub 2000 euros CDP I heard so far neither (Sphinx Myth9, Arcam FMJ33, Rega Appollo, Marantz SA7001, etc...)...

All in all, for the price, you can't go wrong. It is an excellent sounding USB DAC. I am only selling mine now to upgrade to a Lavry DA11, which offers balanced outputs and hopefully even better soundstage and resolution.

 

[Pariah1]

Thanks for the good review Sham. I saw you had this DAC for sale and would be jumping on your offer if not for the overseas shipping costs!

By "dark" I mean not bright, kind of murky or less extended in the highs. It's hard to describe, and it's not my term, just one a reviewer used to describe the Keces sound, although he said it was mostly nuetral.

I like everything you say about this DAC besides the laid back soundstage comment. I like a more forward in your face presentation. I don't want a "lazy" sound. But I don't want an overly hyper sound either.

But then you say it has good rythm and doesn't lack dynamics. That is good. Also that it's not a "thin" DAC like my Thingee unfortunately is.

Thanks for the info, anyone else have an opinion?

 

[tke398]

My D3 is another usb powered DAC and although the Keces sounds much better, I can't say its because of the larger power supply. They have different DAC chips, so its not comparing apples to apples.

I think I know what you are referring to in regards to extension in the highs. While cymbal crashes sound much weightier and realistic, I always feel it is missing the upper-most frequencies. I've often thought this could be fixed by swapping my dark sounding Tara Labs RSC cable for the brighter Kimber Silver Streak. I like everything else about the sound, but I don't want to mess anything else up (bass, mids, etc) by using a silver hybrid cable like the Silver Streak.

 

[Pariah1]

I get what you're saying about the power supply tke, I just am wary of USB powered DACs because the Blue Cirlce Thingee is supposed to have a efficient chip to power it off the USB but it's still quiet. So if it does have a good chip/design for this and is still quiet, might not others be the same? That is my thinking.

Are you describing your D3 or the Keces in the rest of your post?

Dark sound is hard to describe, but I have heard it. But again it was just a term someone else used when describing the Keces sound.

 

[tke398]

I was describing the Keces in my post.

 

[Pariah1]

That's what I figured, lol.

Anyone else have any experience with either of these DACs?

 

[oqvist]

I just have experience with my 131 mk 2... My headphones loves it get considerably more time then my Elite PRO or Valab NOS DAC but my speaker system loooooves it

. I am sure you enjoy it if you don´t want overly warm sound. I got mine with the copper inserts and I find it quite neutral in character. If I would have to choose between warm or cold I would say warm though but really quite neutral with great dynamics, big soundstage and lots of detail.

how much of this transfers over to the 151 I don´t know but it´s the same manufacturer and probably has quite a lot in common I do believe

Heard much great about the Pico too though.

 

[mango salsa]

is the Mk2 much better than the Mk1? anyone ever heard both of them?

 

[ChroniCali]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mango salsa /img/forum/go_quote.gif is the Mk2 much better than the Mk1? anyone ever heard both of them?

MK2 is supposed to be better, they changed some parts. I'm sure its somewhere here on these forums.

 

[Pariah1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oqvist /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just have experience with my 131 mk 2... My headphones loves it get considerably more time then my Elite PRO or Valab NOS DAC but my speaker system loooooves it . I am sure you enjoy it if you don´t want overly warm sound. I got mine with the copper inserts and I find it quite neutral in character. If I would have to choose between warm or cold I would say warm though but really quite neutral with great dynamics, big soundstage and lots of detail. how much of this transfers over to the 151 I don´t know but it´s the same manufacturer and probably has quite a lot in common I do believe Heard much great about the Pico too though.

Sounds good! I have neutral to bright speakers and amp so neutral to warm should be just right.

The only thing I worry about is that "dark" description I read.

 

[Pariah1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mango salsa /img/forum/go_quote.gif is the Mk2 much better than the Mk1? anyone ever heard both of them?

I found this:

AudiogoN Forums: Review: Keces 151 Mk2 and 131 Mk2 DA converter

That's where I read the "dark" comment:

"Both units are very quiet. And both are very musical. The music is cohesive and flows. Instruments are precisely placed. I find that both are very rich, with a warm, slightly dark quality that I am coming to think of as the Keces house sound."

 

[shamu144]

Interesting review !

I can only agree with those comments. Definitely, something that strikes me is how the music is flowing, absolutely effortlessly, so smooth.

However, to me, a dark sounding signature is something emphatizing mid or low frequencies at the expense of other frequencies, which I feel is absolutely not the case with the 151MK2. The notes have some unusuall weight in them though, and this could explain for the "warm" signature, but as opposed to thin sounding, and not opposed to brilliant sounding.

And apparently, the MK2 is quite an improvement over the MK1...

Regards,

 

[Pariah1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamu144 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting review ! I can only agree with those comments. Definitely, something that strikes me is how the music is flowing, absolutely effortlessly, so smooth. However, to me, a dark sounding signature is something emphatizing mid or low frequencies at the expense of other frequencies, which I feel is absolutely not the case with the 151MK2. The notes have some unusuall weight in them though, and this could explain for the "warm" signature, but as opposed to thin sounding, and not opposed to brilliant sounding. And apparently, the MK2 is quite an improvement over the MK1... Regards,

That makes sense, and that is only one person's description anyway. However, I did see someone on here (somewhere...) describe the sound as a bit "dark" too.

I'm into experimenting with vintage gear and I got a late 70's Kenwood receiver that has a "dark" sound. It's so hard to describe, but it is, as you say about the Keces, very smooth and fluid. But this is at the bottom end and lower midrange as you say is not the case with the Keces. I like the receiver for jazz, but that's about it. The sound is overall too imbalanced.

I think I've about made up my mind to get a Keces MK II, especially if I can get a used one (and avoid that $45 shipping fee!). My Thingee DAC is too thin, cold, clinical, and the Keces should be more balanced and neutral. I only hope it's not too "dark" because I do like a brighter presentation...but not as lifeless or hollow like the Thingee!

 

[oqvist]

Mine was definiatly dark prior to burn in. Was quite musical still though. Doing A-B tests it´s definiatly not dark now it´s pretty much neutral I would say. I don´t have absolutely neutral headphones but oh my god does it go well along with my speaker system. PRO 900 it´s a bit on the dark side and K701 a bit on the bright side