[tmann]

so I've dived back into researching for my first mp3 player (tired of taking/changing CDs). I was set on the Karma until I read about all the HD freezes, and that they went belly-up. Now that you can get them so cheap, I'm thinking of taking a chance on one (maybe a refirb).

Digging around a little it looks like the X5L is the current choice for AUDIO mp3 players (I don't get the video thing - are people walking around watching videos?). How does this compare to the Karma (again - focusing on AUDIO only)?

Main issue is sound quality (headphone out, mostly), although I like the 30 hr battery life from the X5L, and the Rio's gapless capability (why is that so much to ask for???). I must say the the X5L looks sweet, too.

Based on the review in the Reviews section on here it looks like at least one person liked the ipod sound quality over the Karma, but these differs with what a lot of people have said about the Karma.

So, how would you compare these? strengths/weaknesses? (considering that I can get a Karma for about 1/2 the price of the X5L I am leaning toward getting one of those until I see how/if they update the X5L).

 

[wolfen68]

You'll get varying opinions on sound quality...but one big issue:

The karma is discontinued with no hope of warranty or updates from Rio...the X5 is still an active model.

I have not heard a karma, but the X5 sounds fine (I'm comparing to the Archos, creative, iRivers and ipods I have heard).

 

[tmann]

thanks. yeah - my "belly-up" comment was supposed to refer to Rio, not the Karma. I know I'd be taking a chance w/ the Karma, but for around $160 I'm thinking it might be worth it. I like that it has gapless playback, and the raves about the sound quality. How is it regarding organizing/finding/playing the songs? Does it use ID3 tags?

I'd love to hear about sound quality comparison between these two players.

Also how about the iRivers? The Rockbox with gapless ability has me curious about these also. What are the strength and weaknesses of these?

 

[sant430]

I've got both the Karma and the X5 60gb, and I'm using the X5 exclusively right now. However, I have to admit, I loved the Karma's interface and gapless playability (not to mention the crossfade either), and I do miss those features. Some people have also had battery issues with the X5, but I haven't had any problems personally.

Choosing between the two is a very tough call. I'd have to say go with the X5/X5L just due to potential firmware upgrades, and the overall newness factor. I've heard there may be some Rockbox development for the X5 too.

 

[randyruiz]

Buying products which are discontinued does not make any sense. Tech gadgets like MP3 players are not the most reliable products and reqiure the support of the manufacturer to assure you are not throwning your money away. $160 may not seem like much but it will be worthless if that used discontinued player you just got off ebay breaks two weeks after you buy it.

I have heard the karma and own the X5L. The sound qaulity difference is small with the edge going to the X5 thanks to its good EQ/Base boost and other sound tweaks. Remeber all X vs Y shootouts are subjective which means you have to look at issues like "can it be fixed" or "does it have a warrenty" or "will there be updates" just as importantly.

IMHO if you want an MP3 player to listen to music dont waste your cash on an end of life product you are tossing money out the window. If you are a hobbiest looking to buy a cheap player and tear it apart to attempt upgrades, then cool the Karma is for you.

 

[mr.karmalicious]

Rio will honor any warranties that are still in effect.

You can get refurbed Karmas from J&R for $170, and they offer extended warranties, just so you know.

Also, the Karma does use ID3 tags, and it uses them better than any player I've used... (iPod, iRiver, some iAudio stuff, Archos, Creative, Samsung, Toshiba...)

 

[ptaaty]

iRiver...near impossible to find the ones that work with rockbox at this point

Karma, I loved this thing, the cradle, param eq, gapless and crossfade. Mine had to be retired this week due to sketchy HDD and toasted battery.

x5, an awesome audio player and one that looks closest to working Rockbox version, very strongly suggest getting the L version. I have issues with the folder only nav and the UI, mostly the nub stick. My friend got used to it quickly however.

FYI I actually chose the vision:m due to interface, id3, and video support (a nice bonus for trips, and the full rez divx support is nice for a portable mini video server for friends and fam, home movies, etc). I am starting to annoy even myself with thread crapping about it but I am more than impressed.

 

[tmann]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.karmalicious Rio will honor any warranties that are still in effect. You can get refurbed Karmas from J&R for $170, and they offer extended warranties, just so you know. Also, the Karma does use ID3 tags, and it uses them better than any player I've used... (iPod, iRiver, some iAudio stuff, Archos, Creative, Samsung, Toshiba...)

thanks for the replies so far. well, now that I wasted a good part of the day (shhh) researching these things after thinking the Karma might not be a wise choice, the comment above has it right back in the running. what is Rio's warranty for these things anyway??

I had it narrowed to the X5L or the Creative Zen Sleek. For audio only, how would you compare these? How are the gaps on the Sleek? (big issue for me and a major reason I like the Karma). The iHP3xx seems pretty good too but the bulkiness might knock it out of the running.

So, anyone have any idea roughly what % of the Karmas had the hard drive problems? I know "nobody posts to say they didn't break...", but it seems like a widespread problem.

 

[darkninja67]

I sold my Karma and am now using an X5. The X5 is to me a better DAP and I have owned many. The sound quality is the equal of the Rio IMO.

 

[tmann]

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkninja67 I sold my Karma and am now using an X5. The X5 is to me a better DAP and I have owned many. The sound quality is the equal of the Rio IMO.

thanks. would you mind indicating what you like better about the 5?

 

[rockin_amigo14]

dont get the sleek...the audio is much worse than the X5. i bought a sleek before my X5. it was nice, but simply boring. the equalizer didnt do much, though granted my headphones werent amazing.

 

[Thaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkninja67 I sold my Karma and am now using an X5. The X5 is to me a better DAP and I have owned many. The sound quality is the equal of the Rio IMO.

I've owned 2 Karma's in the past, and my thoughts echo darkninja's. The X5 is built MUCH better, is easier to use (I prefer the Windows based browsing), and doesn't give up any ground to the Rio in the sound quality department. Of course, this is just my opinion...

 

[Jmmmmm]

Pros for the x5 are better build, potential for advancements, support, much longer battery life with the L, better shape/size, and potentially larger harddrive (60gb). the non-tag browsing may be fine, or even a plus, depending on how your music is organized, but it leads to an overall less flexible library.

I've had a number of players, but the karma is still my favorite (RIP). Its interface is the best out there, imo. Better than the ipod, etc. The karma's parametric eq is also the best I've seen; the x5 eq is ok, but it only allows you to increase a frequency, not decrease it.
However, the karma is oddly shaped for pocketing, and is just not well built. I never had any trouble with the harddrive, but the scrollwheel broke off mine (pretty easily, I might add). While the player was still usable, a lot of the features were rendered...less-usable.

In conclusion, I think you should get a rio cubic. If, for some reason, you can't get your hands on one of those, it's up to you. The x5 is a very good player, and is probably the safer bet in the end. I do miss my karma though....

 

[xiang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmann thanks for the replies so far. well, now that I wasted a good part of the day (shhh) researching these things after thinking the Karma might not be a wise choice, the comment above has it right back in the running. what is Rio's warranty for these things anyway?? I had it narrowed to the X5L or the Creative Zen Sleek. For audio only, how would you compare these? How are the gaps on the Sleek? (big issue for me and a major reason I like the Karma). The iHP3xx seems pretty good too but the bulkiness might knock it out of the running. So, anyone have any idea roughly what % of the Karmas had the hard drive problems? I know "nobody posts to say they didn't break...", but it seems like a widespread problem.

the H320 is imo not too bulky, its the same as having an X5L.. yeah the X5L gets 35 hours of battery life.. but my h320 with upgraded battery gets 29hours.., roughly the same, enough for me... just with an better screen than the X5L (because of the better screen, movies are much more watchable on the h3xx)

 

[darkninja67]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmann thanks. would you mind indicating what you like better about the 5?

The X5 is easier to manage in my small hands for one. IIRC the X5 seems a bit more open in it's sound than the Karma. The build is a no brainer. I loved my Rio but love the X5 a lot more. I recently got a Video iPod and returned it as the sound STILL seems flat to me compared to the X5. Other DAPs do not seem as dynamic to my ears. I recommend this player to anyone with a large collection of CDs to rip. This player forced me to re-encode to FLAC. I may get a 60GB version as well since the file sizes are huge at Q8 FLAC. This is not a player for the novice either. The File Tree system is not for everyone. I was worried when I first got mine but now I am pretty fast with it.

If you are sitting on the fence, get off and give this player a try.