[Miklos]

Would anyone know, which has the better sound quality for MP3 ?

I will be using a headphone amp (Total Airhead + Ety 4S), so I do not need headphone out. The Karma has no line out for portable use, so I am forced to use the headphone out.

The Iriver has line out - so I can use that.

The Iriver is according to some somewhat worse in sound quality than the Karma. However I would use the line out on it - which is better than the headphone out.

So - what would you think? Which one will be better?

Thanks,

Miklos

PS: I am currently using a Nomad JB1 - via line out. I am hoping to get similar quality in a smaller size, with more storage capacity, with more features and longer battery life,

 

[Kirosia]

The line out on the the IHP is basically a second headphone out (sound and amped just like the h. out). Not a true line out.

 

[ASDFer]

Do you have evidence that the line-out is amped? When I made my measurements: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=53916

the line out had distortion under a low impedance load, which indicates to me that it is not amped.

I think out of the box, the players have essentially the same capabilities. The Karma may get the nod if you need a good EQ and the iRiver clearly wins in the unamped department for low impedance headphones. I actually own both players... Since the Karma is my wife's I haven't really had a chance to drive a headphone amp, but the iRiver did the job admirably. Basically, I'd get the player with the feature set you want, because the sound quality is really very similar.

 

[GSTom1]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirosia The line out on the the IHP is basically a second headphone out (sound and amped just like the h. out). Not a true line out.

Yeah, I read that it's not a true lineout too.

Line-Out volume is low

Can anyone provide more evidence?

 

[Kirosia]

A friend has the IHP 120 and I've used it. The line out is affected by the volume control and by eq settings. It sounds pretty much the same (maybe not exactly, didn't really A/B it much) as the headphone out to. I'm expecting one and an amp in a day or two also, I can elaborate more on this if need be.

 

[ASDFer]

IMO, you can't say a line out is amped just because it has the same apparent sound level as the headphone jack. Also, would you not call the output from a phono pre-amp line level, even though these by necessity do some equalization of the signal? I think line out is a very loosely defined term, I mean my sound card (EWX 24/96) can change the line level, but that is definitely still a line out by almost everyone's definition.

Anyway, here is my evidence of the difference between the iRiver's line out and headphone jacks:

RMAA comparison

Note that the frequency response is not true, since the measured levels are voltage and the impedance rises on my headphones at higher frequencies. For example, this graph actually indicates that under load, the lineout actually has a high end roll-off, not a peak.

I didn't record this through SPDIF btw, it's just labelled wrong.

EDITED for tone.

 

[ProFingerSk8er]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirosia A friend has the IHP 120 and I've used it. The line out is affected by the volume control and by eq settings. It sounds pretty much the same (maybe not exactly, didn't really A/B it much) as the headphone out to. I'm expecting one and an amp in a day or two also, I can elaborate more on this if need be.

my W100 + pimeta sounds A LOT cleaner with iHP's line-out then headphone out

 

[rodbac]

I was getting crabby when I saw the remote covers the headphone-out (forcing you to use the remote's port for phones) until I realzed there was a 'line out' port, too...

Am I paying any penalties sound-wise (or other) by using the line-out (I want to use my Super Mini, so utilizing the cheesy remote headphone port is out of the question)? I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what the differnce is...

 

[ejdmoo]

Though I'm no huge expert, I have absolutly no problem telling that the line out gets very distorted at high volumes on my 55ohm AKG240s, while the headphone out has no problems whatsoever.

My personal guess is this: most consumer-grade stuff uses a very hot line level (in comparison to pro stuff), and iRiver, realising their main demographic, made the line level adjustable to acomodate this. You'd be suprised what "line outs" can drive cans sometimes.

 

[rodbac]

Am I misunderstanding, or did you reverse which jack distorts at high volumes?

 

[ProFingerSk8er]

Quote:

Originally posted by rodbac I was getting crabby when I saw the remote covers the headphone-out (forcing you to use the remote's port for phones) until I realzed there was a 'line out' port, too... Am I paying any penalties sound-wise (or other) by using the line-out (I want to use my Super Mini, so utilizing the cheesy remote headphone port is out of the question)? I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what the differnce is...

line-out + external amp bypasses the internal amp in the player, which is exactly the point

 

[rodbac]

Quote:

line-out + external amp bypasses the internal amp in the player

Gotcha.

 

[Kirosia]

I hope you guys are right, I really want to use an amp with the IHP. Hope it can hold a candle ot my d-25's line out. My player should be coming tomorrow! Best of all I got it for free as a gift.

 

[ProFingerSk8er]

lucky you...i had to pay for myself (like always)

now all i need is a D-25.. LOL

 

[waffenschmidt]

OK, looks like the last few posts got this right. I don't consider myself an expert on this, but I think there were some misconceptions stated earlier in this thread.

As I understand it, the difference between a line out and a headphone out is that the line out delivers the signal to the jack before it goes through the internal headphone amplifier circuitry (which is usually not that great in most portable devices).

The fact that device's volume control and equalizer impacts the line out does NOT mean it is not a "true" line out. Again, as I understand it, in many modern devices the volume control and equalization is done digitally (I think in the chip with the DAC circuitry). The difference is where the signal goes after that. For a line out, the signal goes directly to the jack. For the headphone out, it goes through the internal amplifier and then to the headphone jack.

Now, I got into trouble from Jazz on this next point in another thread, so I'll state it carefully. A line out is not designed to drive headphones directly. I'm not saying it can't or even that it won't sound better driving headphones than a headphone out (that part's for you, Jazz), but it isn't designed to drive headphones. It is designed to feel a line-level signal to the high impedance input of an external amp.

Again, I don't claim to be an expert on this, so if anyone knows differently, please feel free to correct me. But if you don't know, please keep your thoughts to yourself. There is way too much disinformation being spread on this forum lately, and it's getting to the point where the usefulness of many threads is marginal.

[Edited for clarity.]