[simond]

Just received a pair of AKG K702 to use in my home studio. To say I'm disappointed at the sound quality so far would be an understatement. What I'm hearing is a hyped and grainy top end, muddled and weak midrange and 'crumbly' lower mid/bass, makes everything sound like someone banging on a dustbin lid. About as far from 'natural' as I can imagine.
 
I've tried direct via the headphone out of my Focusrite interface but distortion creeps in very rapidly. Also tried them with a big Pioneer integrated. Distortion still present at even moderate listening levels. I can get a reasonable result at extremely low listening levels but they still sound crunchy and scooped with an unnaturally wide and disconnected stereo presentation.
 
Are they really that difficult to drive? I'm beginning to think that perhaps they're fake.
 
Was thinking about getting a headphone amp, possibly a Fiio or SMSL. Would these be powerful enough to make the 702's deliver or should I be looking at different cans?
 
[Context: my normal monitoring is via Harbeth (with a custom class D poweramp) or active KRK monitors in a moderately treated room. A long time ago I have some Bayer DT880s which I recall were also on the bright side but I got shot of them mainly because of comfort]

 

[milosingh]

I would not recommend a Fiio or SMSL for them. Maybe the O2 or Magni 2.

 

[simond]

Is what I'm hearing solely related to an underpowered amp? What headphones are good but can be driven easily?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by simond /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Just received a pair of AKG K702 to use in my home studio. To say I'm disappointed at the sound quality so far would be an understatement. What I'm hearing is a hyped and grainy top end, muddled and weak midrange and 'crumbly' lower mid/bass, makes everything sound like someone banging on a dustbin lid. About as far from 'natural' as I can imagine.

 

I've tried direct via the headphone out of my Focusrite interface but distortion creeps in very rapidly. Also tried them with a big Pioneer integrated. Distortion still present at even moderate listening levels. I can get a reasonable result at extremely low listening levels but they still sound crunchy and scooped with an unnaturally wide and disconnected stereo presentation.

 

Are they really that difficult to drive? I'm beginning to think that perhaps they're fake.

It's not so much that they are difficult to drive in terms of the need for enough power to run speakers out of what amp should drive them, but you're running out of clean power. Which Focusrite are you using? The 2i4 for example is rated for 24mW at 32ohms, and the 2i2 for 30mW at 50ohms. For all you know they measured that like how some brands advertise HT receivers' power output - it screams 200watts x 7 channels on the shelf but flip the box around and there's the fine print with "One channel driven, 1% THD." The output ratings on those Focusrites could actually be 15mW x 2channels at 50ohms, 1% THD for all you know, and by the time you hit 89dB out of the K702, it's cranking out more power than that but at 5% THD. 

 

In any case, your interface can easily feed a line signal to an amplifier. Try something like the O2 amplifier, or a Heed CanALot. However as much as it'll likely bring out the midrange more and make it less muddled down to the bass, I'd be a lot less confident about how much they can improve the treble considering the K702 has a spike at around 9khz if I remember correctly, and it's narrower and taller than the spike on the HD600 at around 8khz.

 

[simond]

Thanks for the info. Yes its a 2i4, I'm not expecting much from its HP out but was very surprised just how little clean power it could muster with the 702s. The other amp is a massive silver Pioneer SA-7800 though who knows what tiny circuit is driving the headphone out. I managed to get a bit more power from a Beresford DAC, and listening at very low volumes it was not too bad but that 9k spike you mention is annoying. My worry is that most of these 'hifi' headphones have something similar designed-in in order to sound 'detailed'.
 
I've just ordered a pair of DT770s as they are a studio stalwart, but I was hoping for something with much better upper bass, low mid and mid range detail, its particularly the upper bass/low mid I have most problem with when mixing. Want to avoid hyped bass and treble.
 
Also thinking about trying:
Sony 7506
Audio-Technica ATH-M50X

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by simond /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Thanks for the info. Yes its a 2i4, I'm not expecting much from its HP out but was very surprised just how little clean power it could muster with the 702s. The other amp is a massive silver Pioneer SA-7800 though who knows what tiny circuit is driving the headphone out. I managed to get a bit more power from a Beresford DAC, and listening at very low volumes it was not too bad but that 9k spike you mention is annoying. My worry is that most of these 'hifi' headphones have something similar designed-in in order to sound 'detailed'.

 

I've just ordered a pair of DT770s as they are a studio stalwart, but I was hoping for something with much better upper bass, low mid and mid range detail, its particularly the upper bass/low mid I have most problem with when mixing. Want to avoid hyped bass and treble.

 

 

Pretty much every headphone has some kind of spike in the treble, more so dynamic drivers, in the same manner that fullrange speakers have a notch filter built in to EQ it out, which makes me wonder why some people bother with an FR driver to get rid of a passive crossover, only to use a notch filter and an overly complex box design just to squeeze out more bass from a single driver. In any case that treble spike varies greatly which is why some sound very different. Some can have a relatively short spike, some can have several spikes, some can have one that's tall and then made worse by dips on either side, etc. At the very least though if you used a planar headphone these are as flat as you can get as far as the bass is concerned - they're nearly perfectly flat at 1khz all the way down to as low as 20hz. The problem though is how they behave above 1khz - a lot of people describe the sound as "bassy," but it isn't really in the same sense as a dynamic driver with a huge plateau spanning the upper bass and low midrange, but because past 1khz planars have a tendency to dip lower and for a wider range. 

 

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2621&graphID[]=2131&graphID[]=853&graphID[]=3241&scale=30

 

 

Also, if that Beyer is the 600ohm model, then it'll be even harder for that interface to drive it. If it's only got high distortion 24mW at 32ohms, imagine what its output would be at 300ohms, let alone 600ohms. Unless it behaves like some other topologies, like an output transformer-less tube design that delivers peak output at 300ohms and puts out less power at 32ohms than at 600ohms, but I'd highly doubt that. I mean, not event the T1's sensitivity rating made it easier for a smartphone to drive a 600ohm load.

 

[bar1]

DT770 is discontinued a long time ago. I guess simond is talking about the DT770 Pro version, available impedance values; 32, 80 and 250 ohm. All of those has much more bass-level than the old DT770.

 

[milosingh]

For your taste you'll probably be happier with a HD 650.

 

[bar1]

+1
If OP want's an open headphone; HD650 or Philips Fidelio X2.

 

[simond]

Yes its the 770 Pro 80ohm, but I just canceled the order.
 
My predilection for Harbeth monitors should give you some idea about what appeals to me. Open/closed it doesn't really matter, unless there's an important sonic difference in the midrange? I'm not bothered about low bass as I can check that well enough on my KRKs. I really can't stick fake top end though.

 

[simond]

BTW the 702s only cost £145, RRP is £399 which makes me a bit sceptical about them.
 
Any thoughts on the HD598 as these are about £130
 
HD600s are £220 and HD650 £225 both of which were more than I wanted to spend.

 

[d4rkch1ld]

I've just ordered a pair of DT770s as they are a studio stalwart, but I was hoping for something with much better upper bass, low mid and mid range detail, its particularly the upper bass/low mid I have most problem with when mixing. Want to avoid hyped bass and treble.  

Sounds like HD 600 to me. If u use HD 650 your mix would probably have to much treble. I never listened to K702 but i know profesionals love them because of treble clarity, mastering with them will never produce hot mix. I know my favorite artist Arjen Lucassen use them and his stuff sounds perfect.

 

[theveterans]

K701/K702/Q701 and the K712/Annies/K7xx will only sound as good as HD 600/650 or better if and only if you have a reasonably powerful amp. Try to get an amplifier at least 1 Watt amp @ 50ohm.
 
Schiit Asgard 2 can make the AKGs sound musical and loud even at low gain. Portables like iFi iDSD can easily power them too without a separate amp, but those cost more than double the headphones.

 

[simond]

Sounds like HD 600 to me. If u use HD 650 your mix would probably have to much treble. I never listened to K702 but i know profesionals love them because of treble clarity, mastering with them will never produce hot mix. I know my favorite artist Arjen Lucassen use them and his stuff sounds perfect.

I wouldn't finalise anything on headphones but it's useful having a different reference. I tried EQing some drums just on the 702s. Sounded awful on the KRKs. Upper bass issues and overall way too dark. Of course once you get used to the way a monitor sounds you can compensate, but you have to like it in the first place. Harbeths give me midrange clarity, KRKs overall translatable mix and bottom end. Headphones I wanted for upper bass/low mids and general headphone mix checking. The 702s just sound a mess to me.

 

[simond]

K701/K702/Q701 and the K712/Annies/K7xx will only sound as good as HD 600/650 or better if and only if you have a reasonably powerful amp. Try to get an amplifier at least 1 Watt amp @ 50ohm.

Schiit Asgard 2 can make the AKGs sound musical and loud even at low gain. Portables like iFi iDSD can easily power them too without a separate amp, but those cost more than double the headphones.

I think cheaper phones and better amp are the way forward. I'm in the uk so trying to find a supplier for an O2 in the EU.