[slackman]

Have been listening to it now for about 2 hours (so it's not burned in)
My chain is Laptop (running on battery) -> Foobar -> M2Tech HiFace -> Lavry DA10 -> HD800
 
The very first thing I thought when I put the HD800 on my head was: These things have BASS!!
I was expecting a bass light treble hot headphone, but there's pleenty of bass for me, and the treble is not at all too hot.
Infact the HD800 sounds a bit warm to me, and not at all analytical sounding.
I wonder if this is because of the DA10 headphone amp.
 
Anybody else using the HD800 with the Lavry DA10 or DA11?
If so, how do you compare the built in headphone amp with your dedicated heaphone amp (if you have one)
I'm wondering how big of an improvement there's still to be had.
 
-Marcel

 

[slackman]

Nooo... these are going to go back to the store.
I'm very very dissapointed.
 
My little $50 or less second hand 1993 Appledesign powered speakers (m6082) beat the HD800 BIGtime in certain ways!!!!!!
 
The HD800 sound like home hifi speakers, and are not neutral at all to me.
They make all the music sound the same, although in a very pleasant full range way.
But there's no real "presence".
They have something of a smile curve to me, with some seriously lacking upper mids or something.
I mean my little appledesign speakers are by far not allround speakers, completely lacking bass for instance, but they get the upper mids very right and I hear more on them than on the HD800. Different music really sounds different, you can hear badly mixed music, old music etc in such a clear and distinct way, sounds are clearly defined in a way.
The HD800 have a terrible definition in a way, I still hear the awfull sennheiser "veil". The veil is not the trebble, but it's a lack of "focus / defenition".
When for instance listening to piano the HD800 gives a beautifull sound, but something is very much missing.
 
If this is where headphones are at I'm seriously dissapointed
I've so far heard only the HD600, HD650, AKG701 (sounding very terrible but in a very different way than the HD800) and another AKG whose model name I forgot, but they all had serious faults and couldn't reach good speaker levels at all to me.
I've also very briefly heard the AKG K1000, but very poorly amped, but they did leave an impression on me though, perhaps I should listen to these again but in a proper way this time before I give up on headphones.
 
-Marcel

 

[slackman]

Just looking again at the graph on the headroom site:
 

 
And it does represent pretty well how I'm hearing the frequencies on the HD800.
But I mean common, there a huge area that's on average about 6db softer in the upper mids. 6db is huge!
Take 100 to 300 hertz, it's at around +9db it then drops till -2db at around 2500 hertz (11db drop, that's 4 times as soft!) then it rises to +5db at 6khz and drops off again (yeah I'm hearing that highest spark / air a bit too).
Overall it's very soft in the upper mids, which is what I'm hearing. If it didn't have the peak at 6khz this would be a very veiled dark headphone, it's just the peak at 6khz that gives the impression of a full range sound. But it's not fooling me. This phone is far from flat
There are some other issues I think I'm having with the HD800 but I'm not sure how much of those are due to the frequency curve (and perhaps the DA10 headphone amp)
I never gave much trust to frequency graphs as I'm not an expert on headphones and the ear, but from now on I'll change that and start trusting these headroom graphs a lot more.
 
Strange thing is I can't understand nobody posted the issues I'm having with the HD800 before?
I mean the HD800 are very likeable, but neutral or audiphile heaven? Far far from that in my opinion.
 
-Marcel

 

[slackman]

"+5db at 6khz and drops off again (yeah I'm hearing that highest spark / air a bit too)."
 
Sorry that wasn't clearly written, I meant to say I'm missing a tiny bit of highest spark / air too.

 

[Trogdor]

Listening right now for the first time (I am about 2 hours in).
 
MacBook Pro+Songbird+Flac->Lavry DA11->HD800.

 

[slackman]

Sorry for my bit strong negative review.
I do hear the HD800 as very nice in many ways. But not in the ways I was hoping for.
 
My mother visited me yesterday btw, and played some music for her on the HD800.
Checky 24bit 96khz things from hdtracks, and some other well recorded classical and jazz.
I didn't tell her anythig about my opinion of their sound before.
Her first response was "something is lacking", and after a while she even said it's a little bit like a cloth is over the music.
 
I've sent them back today, and just won a K1000 on ebay.
Hope I like the K1000 better.
 
I am still very curious what others think about the HD800 out of the Lavry.
Although I did find a review (to which I had replied to earlyer actually) that compared the DA10 headphone out to the SPL auditor.
And he found the difference very subtle, DA10 headphone out was slightly less detailed and slightly warmer to him.
I do think that the DA10 headphone out wasn't good for driving them loud, after 30-35 volume it sounded compressed (though that's too loud for me anyhow, I preferred less than 20)
 
I'll let know what I think of the K1000 when I get it.
Perhaps headphones aren't for me period, which'll put my disliking of the HD800 in a different perspective

 

[metalgear]

Interesting review. Can't wait to hear your K1000 vs. HD800 comparison!

 

[krmathis]

Best of luck with the K1000!

The HD800 sure are not for everybody - ok so are not the K1000 either - but definitely worth a try.

 

[Trogdor]

How long have you owned the HD800 before doing that?  Seems very rash to me.
 
I owned the AKG K1000 and Qualia for quite sometime.  Loved the HD600 hated the "veiled" HD650 (WAY TOO SMOOTH).  Canman once described the HD600 as a tad dark (and he liked that and so did I - I really appreciated that time he lent them to me for an extended period of time, gained a lot of respect for the Senn "house" sound)..  The HD800 has some of that going on but its way too early to say without more time.
 
I will be comparing all three btw....

 

[spahn_ranch]

Quote:

Have been listening to it now for about 2 hours (so it's not burned in)
My chain is Laptop (running on battery) -> Foobar -> M2Tech HiFace -> Lavry DA10 -> HD800
 
The very first thing I thought when I put the HD800 on my head was: These things have BASS!!
I was expecting a bass light treble hot headphone, but there's pleenty of bass for me, and the treble is not at all too hot.
Infact the HD800 sounds a bit warm to me, and not at all analytical sounding.
I wonder if this is because of the DA10 headphone amp.
 
Anybody else using the HD800 with the Lavry DA10 or DA11?
If so, how do you compare the built in headphone amp with your dedicated heaphone amp (if you have one)
I'm wondering how big of an improvement there's still to be had.
 
-Marcel

 
Hi Marcel,
 
I picked up a brand new pair of HD800 yesterday. and they're on burn-in right now. My chain is:
MacBook Pro >> Amarra MINI >> Lavry DA10 >> [Corda Cross-1 (DIYFP)] RA1 >> HD800
 
The RA1 may raise an eyebrow, and while perhaps not be the last word in amping these phones it's what I've got right now beside the DA10, and I prefer it to the latter which I regard as neither bad nor special; somewhat lean and spikey, and not as musically involving and punchy/jivey as the RA1 (powered by 2x true 9.6V).
I have auditioned burnt in HD800 with the RA1; DNA Sonett and the Lehmann Black Cube; the latter which was reportedly used by Senn when developing the HD800. To my preferences, the Lehmann was beat by the RA1. Others may of course feel very differently about such a comparison. Possibly Senn and Lehmann, to name but a few. 
 
I was much impressed by the Sonett (single ended), and I would like to do a long audition with it again, once my HD800 are fully burnt in and my ears are familiar with it.
 
 
Quote:

 
The HD800 have a terrible definition in a way, I still hear the awfull sennheiser "veil". The veil is not the trebble, but it's a lack of "focus / defenition".
When for instance listening to piano the HD800 gives a beautifull sound, but something is very much missing.
 
If this is where headphones are at I'm seriously dissapointed

 
More generally than specific to the HD800; lack of focus and definition is something I often take immediate note of with my phones now, if I disable my Corda Cross (an analogue crossfeed filer design by Meier Audio). I received a DIYFP build of it recently and I think it's earning a permanent stay in my chain, regardless of which phones I'm using.
It's made my headphone listening more relaxed and less fatiguing and to my further satisfaction often more musically cohesive. I occassionally disable it and may enjoy a thrilling "airy and expansive" soundscape, but over an album or a night, I now typically kick back with the CC's low and medium crossfeed levels.
 
Thomas

 

[USAudio]

SqueezeBox3 > DA11 > HD800
 
I think you need to give the HD800's a bit more time, 11 hours is not enough time to break them in for an evaluation.

 

[Pyriel0]

The k1000 sounds ok out of the da11 headphone out but you need a really nice (speaker)amp to hear everything they have to offer. Imho, if you are soo upset over the dip on the hd800, then you just wasted money on the k1k if you only have the da11 headphone out to drive them.

 

[Trogdor]

Quote:

The k1000 sounds ok out of the da11 headphone out but you need a really nice (speaker)amp to hear everything they have to offer. Imho, if you are soo upset over the dip on the hd800, then you just wasted money on the k1k if you only have the da11 headphone out to drive them.

Any reason why he couldn't use the balanced outputs?  That should be able to drive the K1Ks without issue.

 

[Born2bwire]

Quote:

Just looking again at the graph on the headroom site:
 

 
And it does represent pretty well how I'm hearing the frequencies on the HD800.
But I mean common, there a huge area that's on average about 6db softer in the upper mids. 6db is huge!
Take 100 to 300 hertz, it's at around +9db it then drops till -2db at around 2500 hertz (11db drop, that's 4 times as soft!) then it rises to +5db at 6khz and drops off again (yeah I'm hearing that highest spark / air a bit too).
Overall it's very soft in the upper mids, which is what I'm hearing. If it didn't have the peak at 6khz this would be a very veiled dark headphone, it's just the peak at 6khz that gives the impression of a full range sound. But it's not fooling me. This phone is far from flat
There are some other issues I think I'm having with the HD800 but I'm not sure how much of those are due to the frequency curve (and perhaps the DA10 headphone amp)
I never gave much trust to frequency graphs as I'm not an expert on headphones and the ear, but from now on I'll change that and start trusting these headroom graphs a lot more.
 
Strange thing is I can't understand nobody posted the issues I'm having with the HD800 before?
I mean the HD800 are very likeable, but neutral or audiphile heaven? Far far from that in my opinion.
 
-Marcel

You should realize that headphones are not meant to have a flat frequency response.  Headphones are near-field devices which couple with your ear and head.  This is taken into account by headphone manufacturers giving rise to such funky graphs.

 

[Pyriel0]

I can't find the post again but I looked it up before and it said the xlr outs are meant to drive high impedance loads. They are able to put out clean voltage but do not have high current capability. I've tried listening both ways with mine and using the F1 to drive them is easily better.