[Veniogenesis]

I have just realized how much better PCDPs are than MP3Ps.

****** STORY ALERT!!! RAMBLINGS FOLLOW!!!

******


Well, here is the story. I'll go back to five years ago to the day when I bought my first (and only) PCDP, the Sony D-E356CK, for $50 USD at Best Buy. I was so happy. It was the first CD Player of my own and I listened to it everday. I was totally ignorant of headphones or even that headphones above $50 existed.

I used the stock headphones and whatnot for three years.

And then the iPod 4th Gen came out a year ago. I went out to my local Apple Store on the day it was released. They didn't have it in stock, obviously. I asked when they would have it, and they said July 21st. So at 6:00 AM, I rushed to the store and was the 2nd person to get the new iPod at the Washington D.C. area (Tyson's Corner) Apple Store.

By this time, I had become aware of a "higher" world and experience. I became interested in headphones and arrived at Head-Fi.org. I immersed myself into this community and read many reviews and bought a number of relatively inexpensive phones (SR-60, HD555, later the A500, ER-6, etc.) to compare them with each other. I didn't have an amp, but I was satisfied. I had found happiness with my iPod + A500/SR-60 combo.

And now we fast forward to just three weeks ago. I was on a field trip, riding in a charter bus, listening to my Apocalyptica and Rammstein on my iPod + A500. All of a sudden, the music stops. The iPod heats up to burning temperature within two minutes. The hard drive ticks and clucks, and I can't reset the iPod. I let it run out of batteries.

My iPod's hard drive had just failed.

I was disbelief. I've been in a music depression ever since. I haven't bought any songs off iTunes. I haven't bought any CDs from Amazon.com. I haven't listened to music. Wow.

The warranty is still in effect though, so I kept telling myself that I would go back to the Apple Store to have them take a look at it. But it's already July 15th. I have 5 more days until the warranty is over. I think I'll go on Saturday.


So now back to the main point of the thread. I came back to Head-Fi after a long time of dormancy. I've been planning on upgrading my headphones (to DT880s) and getting an amp (AE-1). But then I wondered to myself, are there any portable music players better than my iPod? I know everyone has their own preference, but is there an overall agreed on product?

And then I saw a few threads asking "What's the best PCDPs?" So I thought: "PCDPs? Huh? Portable CD Players? What? Who still uses them?"

And then I read through the threads. People knew what they were talking about. Then I realized that I had been as ignorant as the most damned fool could be. There are still a lot of people buying PCDPs. I had been worrying and hyped up too much over the past two years by the emergence of MP3 players.

So I rushed into my basement a hour ago. I went through all of my boxes of junk and fished out that Sony PCDP I had bought so many years ago and had never touched since I got my MP3 player (and therefore I had never tested my headphones on the PCDP before).

I plugged in my headphones.
Popped in the CD.
Holy crap.


This is music.
The deep pounding bass.
The rich and smooth mids.
The uplifting highs.



MP3 players suck.



Sorry for all the rambling.

I just wanted to say what I had in my mind. I had to tell someone. I feel so... satisfied.

Edit: I just rushed over to my friend's house to borrow his iPod for comparison. Uh huh. Yep. Not as good.

Next thing on the list of "to buy" things: A good PCDP!

Notes: Apple Loseless and 320kbps LAME MP3s on the iPod.

 

[majid]

I agree, MP3 sucks. But your iPod is not just a MP3 player. It is also a top-notch virtual CD transport with a decent DAC.

Get your iPod repaired. Then rip your CDs to Apple Lossless, a format the iPod can play back, with no loss in quality unlike the craptastic MP3 format (and other only slightly less bad lossy formats).

 

[bangraman]

Search for 'ipod bass falloff'.

 

[D-EJ915]

screw the iPod, get the Toshiba Libretto, a freaking laptop which is like 4 iPods stacked together 2x2, it's freakin small.

Anyway, cd players rock, but MD units rock them over with such better sound it's just amazing

MD Fan here

 

[YamiTenshi]

I love both my Panasonic pcdp. Next step will be... Hi-MD!

 

[kramer5150]

I have the literally the same discovery (although my creative MP3 players are still going strong).

out of curiosity I pull out my wifes sony D242 CD player, turn OFF the ESP and megabass...

Line output=>gmoy=>MS2... Literally the same impression. Full resonant sub-bass, smooth mids and very clear highs. I'm SHOCKED a 1996 PCDP sounds clearly better than either of my MP3 players. Im not going to say MP3 sucks (and take it THAT far), because it cerytainly is convenient. BUT there is an audible difference. I dont consider my self an audiophile, and from what I gather the D242 is far from good sounding. Note also that I encode at 192-320... so that might be adding to the problem.

Im now in the market for a denon CD-150, optimus 3400, D25, D33 or D303....

Those optimus units go for over $200.... yikes!! I dont think they were that much when they were new.

Everyone talks about vintage sonys, denon, optimus .... How about JVC and Kenwood?... circa 1984-1994 ?

Garrett

 

[D-EJ915]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramer5150 I have the literally the same discovery (although my creative MP3 players are still going strong). out of curiosity I pull out my wifes sony D242 CD player, turn OFF the ESP and megabass... Line output=>gmoy=>MS2... Literally the same impression. Full resonant sub-bass, smooth mids and very clear highs. I'm SHOCKED a 1996 PCDP sounds clearly better than either of my MP3 players. Im not going to say MP3 sucks (and take it THAT far), because it cerytainly is convenient. BUT there is an audible difference. I dont consider my self an audiophile, and from what I gather the D242 is far from good sounding. Note also that I encode at 192-320... so that might be adding to the problem. Im now in the market for a denon CD-150, optimus 3400, D25, D33 or D303.... Those optimus units go for over $200.... yikes!! I dont think they were that much when they were new. Everyone talks about vintage sonys, denon, optimus .... How about JVC and Kenwood?... circa 1984-1994 ? Garrett

If you like the D-242 so much then dang...
D-242 = D-202 but quieter and with ESP
D-12 > D-202 in sound quality
More highly sought after models > D-12
Amazing!

 

[Oddball]

I have to agree with the general sentiment that a good PCDP > a good DAP. Of course, it's always possible that iPods have made phenomenal leaps since the 2nd Generation. I'm not critical enough to hear the difference between a well encoded mp3 (higher than 128 kbps) and a lossless/uncompressed/CD track, so I have to give credit to the DCP-150 hardware in beating my old iPod as far as SQ goes. In the ergonomics department, iPod wins anyday though. As far as durability...my Denon DCP-150 just celebrated its 13th birthday in May and is still working perfectly. My iPod has been dead as long as I've been at Head-Fi. It lasted one year. I paid $60 for the DCP-150 and $400 for the iPod. I'm looking towards getting a fullsize CDP, but I'm skeptical whether I could get anything that would surpass the bang-for-the-buck I've experienced so far.

I would love for my iPod to have had better SQ than my PCDP. It's so much more practical to use a DAP...not to mention that it would avoid me the ridicule of the entire teenage population for using such a behemoth. The iPods since the 2nd generation (listened to a 4G one non-critically) sound nice, but I still want to say that my DCP-150 wins.

Of course, I could just attribute the SQ difference I heard to my preference of the DCP-150 sound signature.

The above, as usual, is imo.

 

[RedSparowes]

Hi, I'm new here

I would've never know my old D-311 and D-E905 were that good and valuable without browsing through these forums. I'm now using the D-EJ361 and it sounds bad comparing to my old players.

I'm also going to receive my first mp3 player in a few days so I hope I can have a bit fun with my mp3 player and enjoy some decent music.

 

[Elephas]

Your story was a good read.

I believe the reason the Sony CDP sounded so much better than the iPod is that the CDP headphone port is better than the iPod headphone out. My home CDP's headphone port sounds much better than the iPod's headphone out, even using Apple Lossless.

Using line out (or headphone port at max volume) to a good amp, the iPod's sound quality improves dramatically. A CDP > amp may still sound better but the difference shouldn't be as great.

There many other reasons other than sound quality to use an iPod instead of a PCDP.

I for one am impressed by those carrying around a PCDP, DAC, and amp. They are the true audiophiles.

 

[Imyourzero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas There many other reasons other than sound quality to use an iPod instead of a PCDP.

Exactly. A good PCDP may sound better, but a lot of DAPs have great sound quality too and in a portable environment I can do without the limitations of a PCDP (bulky + have to carry multiple CDs around

). With my iAudio flash player, I can load several albums worth of music onto it and have a large collection of music on something barely larger than a pack of gum.

If it's the ultimate in sound quality that I want, I listen at home. Personally, I don't see the point in bothering with amps, FLAC, etc. on the go because unless you use canalphones, much of that increased sound quality is lost due to outside noise. Perhaps if I had to ride a train for a couple of hours a day, I'd feel different. I'm not saying that one solution is better than the other, because like anything else both have their advantages and disadvantages...but for my purposes, a flash player or even HDD-based DAP is the better choice.

 

[OlManRivah]

DAP+(USB Cord)+PC+CD+MP3+X+y-PC-(USB Cord) = DCDP+CD
MP3(Z)<CD(Z)
DCDP>DAP

X=Conversion time
Y=Download time
Z=Quality of Sound

 

[CloudySkies]

Yup, I've been thinking all along that My M3 doesn't sound as good as either of my old Discman players. I'm not talking about cd quality vs lossy codecs either, I'm talking about the general sound production qualities of the players themselves. It's great to have all of my cds and downloads on a super portable device and the sound quality of the M3 doesn't bother me on it's own, but when running a dirrect comparison between the M3 and a Discman is like night and day. The Discman has a more airy sound, deeper tone in general, everything is more impactful, and above all it just sounds more organic and lively. Despite all of this, my M3 does sound a lot clearer and is less muddy. I can definately hear things with the M3 that I couldn't with a Discman......but still, my old portable cd players sound far better than the M3 does when it comes to having an enjoyable listening experience.

 

[Eisenhower]

My zen xtra sounds almost as good as my little cd players do. Its not like a massive difference or anything. Id rather take a little sacrifice in sound in order to carry around 40 gb's of music than have to lug a pcdp and cd's around.

 

[daveDerek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veniogenesis I have just realized how much better PCDPs are than MP3Ps.

i just stumbled into this old thread and figured i add something that may be obvious to some of the older members here, but perhaps not to a generation that's only used to digital audio. analog audio (eg. a decent and well set up turntable rig, or better yet, a good reel to reel tape deck running at higher speeds) done right will give you pause about listening to digital. it often (though not always) is just so much more realistic and natural sounding. for a shocker about sound quality though, i'd recommend attendance at acoustic, unamplified concerts, and then compare that to recorded music. if you don't know the real sounds well you may find yourself reassessing your opinions about what equipment reproduced music accurately or colored.