[The Fire Snake]

Well, I am pretty new to the world of headphones and hi end home theater.  I never knew headphones could sound so good so I am now hooked.  A few months ago I needed cans for work, so I got the ATH-M50s to use straight out of my ipod.  It was a great purchase.  I love these headphones and the way they sound.  They sometimes over emphasise the bass, but overall the highs and mid range are clear and the bass is deep and impactfull.  SO this is my work setup, but I want a pretty highend setup for home.  SO after reading a lot of threads and getting confused about which can I want, I decided to start my journey with the Sennheiser HD650.  The can is decently made and the fitment on my head is beautiful and comfortable.  BUT I was shocked that the sound is not that appealing to me, specifically(some observations):
 
1.)  These are the first open back headphones I have used, and the sound stage doesn't sound any more open or wider than my M50s. ??
 
2.)  These cans seem very power hungry.  I am driving them with a Eddie current SS amp and I have to jack up the volume quite a bit
 
3.)  They seem to sound much better on classical music such as piano, violin, mozart(not the kind of music I listen to) then highly produced music like techno(well recorded progressive house stuff).
 
4.)  I kept comparing them with the M50s back and fourth on the same music and tried a lot of different kind of stuff, but the HD650 sounded, well kind of muted or muddy.  Then I remembered all the talk about the veil, and I think that is what this is.  It almost sounds as if there is a think towel over the drivers of each side.  And swapping to the M50, feels like the towel is removed.
 
5.)  The HD650 has more than enough bass, so that is no problem.  It is controlled for the most part, but there are times it seems too over present.
 
Am I going crazy or deaf??  I thought the HD650's would knock my socks off, but just the opposite.  I have read the countless reviews and threads on this site and others about how they are so picky about the gear used and that they are laid back.  I don't mind of they are laid back, but that didn't seem to be the problem here.  They just didn't sound right to me, especially for > $500 cans.
 
Granted that the system I am using them on is not top flight, but stilll??  The system I am using them on is a Thinkpad T500 source(with CDs) into a eddie current amp(using the 3.5mm to rca cable) into the HD650.  I will use them for a few days more, but I am thinking that I will wind up selling them.  If I didn't like the HD650s, would the HD600 be any better?  What other can should I try next?  Your comments and help are much appreciated.  Thanks.

 

[Head Injury]

If you don't like it, then you don't like it. More amping may help matters, but I doubt it will transform the headphones for you. Give them some more time, and if you still don't like them after a week then you're just an M50 guy.
 
Your Thinkpad T500, are you using the headphone out to the amp? Don't do that. The headphone out has a tiny little amp in it already, and amping an already-amped analog source is bad for the second amp. You should invest in a USB DAC.

 

[Br777]

let me be the first to welcome you to the For Sale Forum
 
picking headphones based on reviews can definitely be hit and miss.  unfortunately for some of us going to a meet is simply not an option, so we have to do our best. 
 
Honestly your best best is sell them and try something else... or..
 
unfortunately it is unlikely that their sound is going to radically change.  The only possible suggestion i would have is follow the "how to equalize your headphones" thread.  In my own experience, as I often preach, THIS is a way to radically change the sound of your cans..  
 
Basically what you are doing is making it so the sound they produce is flat across all frequencies by using a sine wave to pick out the peaks and valleys in the frequencies until they are all even volume... which is what headphones are ideally supposed to sound like (most of them anyway)
My denon d2000, and my new ATH-W1000x radically changed for the better when i eq'd them flat
 
thats my 2 cents
 
good luck

 

[joelpearce]

I haven't listened to the mid-high range Senns for very long, but I wasn't impressed at our local high-end store switching from Senns to Grados and Shures.
 
They have that beautiful warmth that is quite nice for some genres, but I have also found I like my headphones more aggressive and bright.  If you are able to, get a chance to listen to some Beyerdynamics and see what you think.

 

[MomijiTMO]

When I first got my HD650, I thought they were broken. They just sounded muffled and meh so I defoamed them and started to appreciate them a lot more. In the end the foam went back in. It took a week of listening to 'get' them. Compared to the K701, they sounded fuzzy. It was only much later in my headphone journey did I began to realise how wrong my initial views of headphones were. The HD650s are great, especially with the right amp. My view that they were blurry and not focused went away. It occurred to me that this veil wasn't a deal breaker and actually made some dodgy bright recordings sound alright. Try those albums on a K701 and your ears will protest.

 

[The Fire Snake]

@HeadInjury -
 
Quote:

More amping may help matters, but I doubt it will transform the headphones for you. Give them some more time, and if you still don't like them after a week then you're just an M50 guy.

 
Thats exactly what I thought, a better source, amp, dac would probably help but I don't think it would be that radical of a change.  I think my current setup is good enough to get an idea of what the cans sound like, don't you think?.  I will try them for another week or 2 and then sell them if I don't find a difference.
 
 
Quote:

Your Thinkpad T500, are you using the headphone out to the amp? Don't do that. The headphone out has a tiny little amp in it already, and amping an already-amped analog source is bad for the second amp. You should invest in a USB DAC.

 
Yes, I am using the headphone out to the amp.  I didn't know this would cause problems to the second amp.  Thanks for letting me know.  That was very helpful advice.

 

[Drubbing]

I think the expectation of being wowed is a sure way for it never to happen. The best approach/expectation is to experience an immediately pleasing sound presentation, with a level of, and focus on detail that you like. Subtleties will follow with familiarity and listening to a broad range of your music.
 
There's an awful lot of hype on the 650s and I don't think it's justified. But then, I have no love for the Senn sound at all. There's a fair chance your amp isn't up to the job, but if you don't like the sig to begin with, then addressing that won't see them turn into something else.

 

[Mr Joboto]

Quote:

but if you don't like the sig to begin with, then addressing that won't see them turn into something else.

Generally, that.

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

The EC/SS is surely enough amp to drive HD650s reasonably well. I agree that the problem here is probably your source -- even a $100 uDac would probably make for a big improvement over going headphone out from your lapper. There are a number to choose from in the FS forum at the moment...
 
Personally, I love the HD650s and think the whole "veil" thing is largely fictional. I know others disagree, and you very well might, but IMO you owe it to yourself to try your Senns with a competent transport > source > DAC chain before you give up on them.

 

[IPodPJ]

I agree.  The HD650 sound broken to me too.  There is something not quite right with them.  The HD600 and HD800 are a different matter though -- no veil.  If you want to give the Sennheiser sound a go, sell the 650 and get the 600. 

 

[Ypoknons]

Give them a bit more time first... Give them a chance and let your brain adjust, when you first pick up a new headphone there's always a bit of anxiety, worrying, comparisons to the old one... If after a week or two they don't, then look at selling them. Choosing the wrong headphones happens to everyone, if you want better performance with electronic music try the Beyers which have a delightful 'punch' if not quite as smooth as the Senns. Improving your source might be worth it, since you'll want to do that in the long run anyways. 

 

[Graphicism]

Personally I think an upgrade from the M50 would be an Ultrasone; PRO-750, PRO-900 if you want more bass, HFI-780 not as analytical but very fun. The HD650 are muffled (veiled) and like anything you can get used too it and learn to like it, chances are however they just aren't for you. The HD600 are slightly different, more on the neutral side, still kinda recessed for my liking, decent enough for acoustic, some classical but lifeless with electronica.

 

[Br777]

+1 on giving yourself time to adjust.  I just upgraded from denon d2000 to ATH w1000x and the sound was so different that i was literally in shock... im still getting used to the new sound.  its almost like your mind goes through a bit of withdrawl from what its used to. 
 

 

[SP Wild]

I find HD650 terrible for techno, although they are still my favorite headphones.  You should get a better source first because they may improve the HD650 more to your liking and even if you end up with another headphone you prefer more, your current source will not do justice to any reference quality phones, period.  If you do get a better source, try using the HD650 exclusively, like you used the M50 exclusively - fair is fair.  Then tell us what you think of the M50.

 

[momomo6789]

hd650 are 

now you know