[maxxy]

Hi All
 
I just "upgraded" from the DT880 250ohm to the HD650 after like 5-6 years with the Beyers. Beyond the fact that there seems to be distortion in the left driver (arg! never buy second hand from Amazon again...) the headphone sounds AWESOME. Compared to the DT880, the soundstage is smaller, cans are a bit less comfortable.... and that's it I think? The DT880 just sounds so clinical and thin compared to the HD650. Music sounds like "music" in the Senn's. I enjoy the whole shabang instead of listening to all the finer details (which are also there in the Senn's but don't make your brain think about it) - they just seem to mesh together so well. I enjoyed this signature of the Beyer's in the beginning but it does seem very fatiguing after so many years with the cans. Regarding build quality, the DT880 is shameful. The headband started melting and leaving black spots on my hands. The plastics that connect the drivers to the headband also broke and I had to ghetto screw them together with bigger screws.
 
So what's the problem? Well, due to the distortion issues, I'll probably be shipping the Senn's back for a refund from Amazon. Until then, I want to get to know them a bit better. Currently powered via the LD Mk3 amp + Fiio E10 as DAC. I must say I am disappointed by the bass extension of these cans. Everything else sounds so musical and great until you play that song that on your home speakers (no subwoofer) has such awesome bass and on the Senn's you just say... "ugh, where's my bass?" (extension, not impact).
 
I've read many threads here saying that the LCD-2 r2 are the next "logical" (not for the wallet!) upgrade. Some recommend the HE-400. So I'd appreciate some feedback on my dilemma:

1. To get a new HD650 and upgrade the amp/dac (was thinking in direction of ODAC/O2) and this will perhaps improve bass extension? I don't believe in cable upgrades as to me it seems like snake oil.
2. To get a LCD2 r2 which costs an insane amount of money (more than I am willing to spend) but this will be the "end of my upgraditis"
3. To get a HE-400 but I have bad experience with Hifiman build quality (I bought two RE-0 and they both broke apart after relatively minimal use)

 
I am not interested in purchasing 2nd hand. All purchases preferably done in Europe and with GOOD warranty and build quality.
Thanks!

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Hi All
 
I just "upgraded" from the DT880 250ohm to the HD650 after like 5-6 years with the Beyers. Beyond the fact that there seems to be distortion in the left driver (arg! never buy second hand from Amazon again...) the headphone sounds AWESOME. Compared to the DT880, the soundstage is smaller, cans are a bit less comfortable.... and that's it I think? The DT880 just sounds so clinical and thin compared to the HD650. Music sounds like "music" in the Senn's. I enjoy the whole shabang instead of listening to all the finer details (which are also there in the Senn's but don't make your brain think about it) - they just seem to mesh together so well. I enjoyed this signature of the Beyer's in the beginning but it does seem very fatiguing after so many years with the cans. Regarding build quality, the DT880 is shameful. The headband started melting and leaving black spots on my hands. The plastics that connect the drivers to the headband also broke and I had to ghetto screw them together with bigger screws.
 
So what's the problem? Well, due to the distortion issues, I'll probably be shipping the Senn's back for a refund from Amazon. Until then, I want to get to know them a bit better. Currently powered via the LD Mk3 amp + Fiio E10 as DAC. I must say I am disappointed by the bass extension of these cans. Everything else sounds so musical and great until you play that song that on your home speakers (no subwoofer) has such awesome bass and on the Senn's you just say... "ugh, where's my bass?" (extension, not impact).
 
I've read many threads here saying that the LCD-2 r2 are the next "logical" (not for the wallet!) upgrade. Some recommend the HE-400. So I'd appreciate some feedback on my dilemma:

1. To get a new HD650 and upgrade the amp/dac (was thinking in direction of ODAC/O2) and this will perhaps improve bass extension? I don't believe in cable upgrades as to me it seems like snake oil.
2. To get a LCD2 r2 which costs an insane amount of money (more than I am willing to spend) but this will be the "end of my upgraditis"
3. To get a HE-400 but I have bad experience with Hifiman build quality (I bought two RE-0 and they both broke apart after relatively minimal use)

 
I am not interested in purchasing 2nd hand. All purchases preferably done in Europe and with GOOD warranty and build quality.
Thanks!

 
If the quality issue is the only thing you worry about the HE400s, then worry no more. They are very well-built (exact same build quality and parts used as the $700 HE-500s and $1200 HE-6's, just a different paint-job) and there's lots of metal in the construction, it's a tank of a headphone, and relatively lightweight for a planar too.
 
And you'll be getting the best bass possible below LCD2's price.

 

[Categg]

Not sure about the E10 but i do have a little dot Mk IV SE and the HD650. Did u try tube rolling already? I found that rolling different tubes really changes the whole sound presentation in ways i never thought possible before. If rolling in a 10 dollar pair of tubes get u the sound you want, you'll be able to stick to the HD650 route, unless you wana try out different phones. 

 
Link to tube rolling thread for little dots: http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide

 

[TMRaven]

You sure you're just mistaking the bass extension of the speakers with just bass bloom caused from an untreated room or something?  
 
It is true the HD650 does not extend too terribly low.   It starts to rolloff at 60-70hz from my experience, and gets very anemic below 50.  HE-400 offers a good amount more extension.  LCD-2 probably offers the most extension you could get from an open headphone.

 

[maxxy]

Quote:

You sure you're just mistaking the bass extension of the speakers with just bass bloom caused from an untreated room or something?  
 
It is true the HD650 does not extend too terribly low.   It starts to rolloff at 60-70hz from my experience, and gets very anemic below 50.  HE-400 offers a good amount more extension.  LCD-2 probably offers the most extension you could get from an open headphone.

 
The room is slightly treated with a bit of 15cm deep basstraps with paper membrane in the front, but you are correct - that is part of the effect.
I guess the fact that the rest of the range is so musical in the HD650 except for the bass extension just makes it plainly obvious that something is missing. Unlike the DT880 which is generally clinical throughout the range.
 
Does the HE-400 match the HD650 in sound signature? What about in regards to comfort? I don't think I'm interested in blowing that much money on the LCD-2 at the moment.

 

[TMRaven]

I'm ok with the HE-400's comfort, in fact I find it more comfortable than HD650, but most others don't agree.  General consensus is that its comfort is good, though.
 
I found the HE-400 to be similar ti HD650's sound, however it's a little darker throughout the midrange and its deeper extending bass only adds to that effect, and its upper treble is brighter.  Darker and brighter at the same time, so to say, but still very neutral.  I think it's your best option if you want to get better bass extension out of an open headphone in the price range.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

 
The room is slightly treated with a bit of 15cm deep basstraps with paper membrane in the front, but you are correct - that is part of the effect.
I guess the fact that the rest of the range is so musical in the HD650 except for the bass extension just makes it plainly obvious that something is missing. Unlike the DT880 which is generally clinical throughout the range.
 
Does the HE-400 match the HD650 in sound signature? What about in regards to comfort? I don't think I'm interested in blowing that much money on the LCD-2 at the moment.

 
HE-400 is VERY comfortable with velour pads.