[Nasir]

I'm interested in upgrading my computer audio setup. Right now, I am trying to decide between two possible setups: ESI Juli@ or Chaintech AV-710=>Entech Number Cruncher 203.2.

I have read that as long as a sound card is bit-perfect and using digital outputs, the DAC is what affects the sound quality. So what I really want to know is which of the two DACs will have the better sound quality?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

 

[Nasir]

I've seen that some people use the Juli@->Entech NC 203.2 for their setup, so I am guessing that the Entech does indeed have the better DAC. That, or they are blindly using the Entech in their setup.

Which one is it?

 

[infinitesymphony]

Some people like the security of using an external DAC because there's less chance of electrical computer "noise" affecting the sound. Plus, an external DAC is more versatile; it can be connected to a variety of devices and isn't stuck inside your computer.

The Juli@ likely has much better drivers out of the box than the AV-710, and won't require firmware flashing to get bit-perfect digital output.

 

[cvince]

I'd get an ESI Juli@

My reason for getting it is that it has RCA outs, which means you can directly connect your amp to the soundcard without requiring a breakout cable. Less joints = cleaner signal = better sound.

BUT I'm using the RCA out only as a temporary solution. Although the analogue out on the card sounds much better than 99% of the internal soundcards out there (It's known to be better than the E-MU 0404, but worse than the E-MU 1212), if you wish to upgrade to an external DAC, the Juli@ also has you covered with what is touted as one of the best digital interfaces out of your computer. I have yet to see somoene who doesn't agree that the quality of the digital out of the Juli@ is comparable to the $900 lynxtwo.

Basically, going with the Juli@ offers you greater headroom, while still providing decent-sounding bit-perfect analogue output. Somehow I doubt the 203.2 sounds that much better than the Juli@ to justify buying it over the Juli@, but don't quote me on that because I have never heard the 203.2.

Not to mentionn that while you are using the Juli@'s analogue outs for the time being, keep in mind that the Juli@ has up to 24-bit decoding, while the 203.2 is limited to 20-bits.

If you have any 24-bit recordings, the Juli@ will definitely sound better than the 203.2

 

[Xakepa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony The Juli@ likely has much better drivers out of the box than the AV-710, and won't require firmware flashing to get bit-perfect digital output.

AV-710 does NOT require flushing to produce bit-perfect output. I'm up to get that DAC in 3-4 days and I'll compare it against my (heavily modded) onboard Wolfson DAC

If you're going to use the Cruncher anyway, just get AV-710, set it to digital out NOS KS, and swicth all other sounds to onboard audio. If you plan to do anything but 2.0 music - play games, watch movies, than stay away from AV-710

 

[Nasir]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvince Somehow I doubt the 203.2 sounds that much better than the Juli@ to justify buying it over the Juli@, but don't quote me on that because I have never heard the 203.2.

So you would expect it to have somewhat better sound quality than the Juli@? I am very new to audio, so I doubt the increased "joints" would really affect the sound too much to my ears. I actually don't even know what a breakout cable is, but the 203.2 also has RCA outputs.

Also, what is NOS KS? I'm guessing the KS is Kernel Streaming, but I can't find anything in Google as to what the NOS stands for.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xakepa AV-710 does NOT require flushing to produce bit-perfect output.

Ah, okay. I don't have any personal experience with the AV-710, so I was going with general consensus. I heard that flashing the AV-710 to a Prodigy allowed it to do bit-perfect output without ASIO or Kernel Streaming.

 

[lmf22]

I have the AV-710 and it doesn't require flashing for bit-perfect out. I fear that if I flash it and need the analog outs in the future I'll have trouble flashing it back to the original firmware. So, I'm currently using iTunes with the Foobar passthrough --> Entech 203.2 --> AV receiver --> Senn HD595.

Compared to the AV-710's Wolfson DAC (unmodded) it sounds much better. Tighter bass, better clarity. I'm also new to audio so I don't really know how to describe it in detail.

If you're on tight budget like me I don't think you can go wrong with the Entech. It's an excellent DAC for the price (~$50 on eBay).

 

[cvince]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nasir So you would expect it to have somewhat better sound quality than the Juli@? I am very new to audio, so I doubt the increased "joints" would really affect the sound too much to my ears. I actually don't even know what a breakout cable is, but the 203.2 also has RCA outputs. Also, what is NOS KS? I'm guessing the KS is Kernel Streaming, but I can't find anything in Google as to what the NOS stands for.

Again I can't tell you because I haven't heard the 203.2

From my experience though, the Juli@ is a very decent sounding card. I wouldn't be surprised if the sound quality actually exceeds the 203.2. I have heard a few DACs, and the ones I personally find slightly similar to the Juli@ are Firestone Fubar II, and an AD-(NOT CS) chipped stock Zhaolu 2.0.

If you are planning to get a better DAC than the 203.2 in the future, I HIGHLY recommend the Juli@ because of its digital out. If you are only going to stick with the 203.2, which is pretty much the bottom end of the bottom end when it comes to external DACs, then by all means go for the 203.2

 

[Toe]

Quote:

If you have any 24-bit recordings, the Juli@ will definitely sound better than the 203.2

Not necessarily. If more bits were always better, you might as well just say get the AV-710 by itself and forget the external DAC. But I think most would say the 203.2 at 20bit sounds better than the AV-710 at 24bit.

Quote:

Also, what is NOS KS?

NOS = Non-OverSampling

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvince the 203.2, which is pretty much the bottom end of the bottom end when it comes to external DACs

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvince I haven't heard the 203.2

 

[Xakepa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nasir So you would expect it to have somewhat better sound quality than the Juli@? I am very new to audio, so I doubt the increased "joints" would really affect the sound too much to my ears. I actually don't even know what a breakout cable is, but the 203.2 also has RCA outputs. Also, what is NOS KS? I'm guessing the KS is Kernel Streaming, but I can't find anything in Google as to what the NOS stands for.

NOS KS is non over-sampled Kernel Streaming, i.e. 16-bit/44.1KHz PCB stream.

I ordered the Cruncher the other day on Amazon, so I could compare it to my heavily modded Wolfson this week and post the result. Yes, I hope the Cruncher will sound better than Wolfson (which, detail-wise, is at least in par with Juli@'s AK4358) - if not, it'll go to the sales corner.

And again, the implementation of the chip is far more important than it's flashy specs. Cruncher is designed and build FOR HQ audio reproduction, while any consumer SC have to cut too many corners to be fully functional (DAC, ADC, DSP etc etc) w/o breaking the bank.

 

[warrior05]

i'm a big fan of the juli@. i've had absolutely no problems with it and for awhile ran straight from the juli@ to my headfive and it sounded really good. yes, i did notice an improvement when i added my mhdt constantine but coming straight out of the juli@ was a fine place to start. and noise is not an issue. i had wonderful blackground when i was going straight into my headfive.

 

[cvince]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior05 i had wonderful blackground when i was going straight into my headfive.

My thoughts exactly. First thing I noticed after switching soundcards was the incredibly black background.

The Juli@ by itself is a great place to start, and will allow you ample headroom to continue.

If you are wanting to get a better DAC in the future, you are going to need a digital out interface.

Sure the AV-710 is a killer deal (but boy are those getting rare nowadays), but as you move up the chain to some extremely high-end DACs, you are going to need to buy a Juli@ or an emu1212/0404m anyways.

 

[Nasir]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvince Sure the AV-710 is a killer deal (but boy are those getting rare nowadays), but as you move up the chain to some extremely high-end DACs, you are going to need to buy a Juli@ or an emu1212/0404m anyways.

Why would I need to get a better sound card for use with the higher-end DACs? The fact that all the cards have a digital output should make the actual card very negligible, right? The AV-710 has a digital interface anyway.

For at least two years, I strongly doubt I will get anything better than a good sound card or a cheap sound card w/ digital outputs connected to the 203.2 for my source. For this reason, I don't really think the quality of the digital output is something which will really affect me too much, rather the quality of the DAC of the good sound card (Juli@) vs. the quality of the Entech DAC.

 

[Redo]

Go for the external dac