[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawainpanda if jet li was to join...lol, no competition, considering that jet li won what...6 chinese national matches when he was still a kid...damn

I was going to mention this, while Jet-li has joined the hollywood scene, he comes from a status of solid championship. See in particular page 2 here.

 

[r3cc0s]

jeebus
Jet Li won "wu shu" competitions when he was young
Which is just a correographed dance routine at one point based upon Kung Fu prior to the "people's republic of china" takeover

(cause to practice Kung Fu at one point was considered unlawful)

Probably the only pratical TV star martial artists are:
Jacky Chan
Bruce Lee at one point
Samo (i forgot his last name)
and Steven Segal

asides from them, I don't think any action star can acctuality hold their own

however no celebrity I can think of can challenge a K1 or Pride fighter
Even Joe Rogan gets his ass handed to him and he's quite an ethusiast

 

[akwok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3cc0s jeebus Jet Li won "wu shu" competitions when he was young Which is just a correographed dance routine at one point based upon Kung Fu prior to the "people's republic of china" takeover (cause to practice Kung Fu at one point was considered unlawful) Probably the only pratical TV star martial artists are: Jacky Chan Bruce Lee at one point Samo (i forgot his last name) and Steven Segal asides from them, I don't think any action star can acctuality hold their own however no celebrity I can think of can challenge a K1 or Pride fighter Even Joe Rogan gets his ass handed to him and he's quite an ethusiast

Wu Shu isn't lethal? What are you on!?

Jackie Chan grew up and trained as a gymnast in an Opera school. Sammo Hung was Jackie Chan's 'brother' in the same Opera school. Steven Seagal is a joke.

Jet Li vs. Jackie Chan at his prime.. who knows who would win. But definitely, Jet Li would destroy the rest on your list easily.

 

[RYCeT]

Yeah, IMO Jet li can hold his own, wushu is not the same as WWF/WCW

Btw I have never seen a K1, How is it compare to UFC?

 

[bundee1]

I bought one on PPV last year. Some of the fights stink while others are hard to judge. I just wait for the KO or tapout. To me it seemed more violent, less rules I think.

 

[fogia.4]

Bruce Lee would tear everyone apart easily imo.

 

[ooheadsoo]

Competition Wu Shu has no fighting experience vs. other schools whose students go on stints as bouncers to keep their killer instincts sharp. Other forms of kung fu focus on killing techniques and are therefore hard to apply in regulated fights. Intentional throat strikes, eye gouges, attacks below the belt, tend to be frowned upon. They don't really have sports versions, while Wu Shu is.

K-1 is standup martial arts. Kick boxers and Muay Thai types typically win. Sometimes you'll see a winner list themselves as karate or what not, but they basically employ kick boxing or western boxing since elbows and clinching are not allowed. Fancy spinning kicks etc. don't work well against people trained to react to the speed of a jab except as surprise attacks. Don't get me wrong, there are entertaining fighters with a taste for showmanship. Because of the kicks, the defense is naturally more liberal than in western boxing and there is a greater range of attack.

UFC takes a lot more knowledge to enjoy. The ground game isn't accessible to the casual viewer. Try Pride FC if you get a chance. Their two commentators are much more knowledgable than anything you get in the UFC and you can learn the positions and attacks/counterattacks from their commenting. The color commentator is a real fighter who understands both striking and no-gi jiu-jitsu type submissions, and the straight commentator has learned a lot from study (you could see from when he first started, he didn't know too much and relied on the color commentator, but now he can hold his own.) Probably the only thing they don't comment on that well are various judo throws which have a gazillion different japanese names. They are learning to spot the more effective throws, however.

 

[Factor]

UFC and Pride are MMA (mixed martial arts) whereas K-1 is a striking sport only. The main way it differs from regular kickboxing shows is that it attracts a more diverse range of fighters and fighting backgrounds, but there's no grappling in a "K-1 rules" match. However, K-1 did start putting on MMA shows in the last couple years so if you saw K-1 and it looked just like UFC with "less rules," you probably bought "Romanex" or one of the "Hero's" shows, which are very similar to Pride's MMA shows.

In terms of MMA rules, in America kicks and knees to a downed opponent are illegal. In Japan they are allowed but elbows and forearms to the face are illegal.

Yes, Mirko Cro-Cop would obviously left high kick Van Damme's head into next week if they were to meet in K-1, but that would never happen because they would be in a different weight class (Van Damme is pretty small, right?) and Cro-Cop doesn't fight in K-1 anymore. He split for Pride when K-1 started to get all circus-like.

The Pride announcing situation isn't so bad now but it's such a compromise that it's unbelievable. The team used to be Stephen Quadros and Bas Rutten, and they had great chemistry. Bas was of course a great fighter (possibly the best in the world at one point) and Quadros really knew his stuff because he trained MMA himself. I forgot the complete story, but basically there was a management change in their American marketing division and the guy who got put in charge fired Quadros and hired Damon Perry, some guy from his hometown. This guy was so bad and caused such a fan backlash that he was dropped after two shows, so they hired Mauro Ranallo, who's the guy they have now. He's not nearly as bad as Perry but he loves using weird, "creative" phrasing that he has to pause and think about before he delivers, as if he's consulting his internal thesaurus. His anouncing style is completely uptight and overthought, plus he has NO chemistry with Bas. They sometimes sound like they want to kill each other. (Quadros and Bas were real-life buddies and they had 100% perfect on-air chemistry.)

And that's probably more than you wanted to know about the American Pride announce team.

 

[ooheadsoo]

Yes, K-1 has too many freak show fights, but isn't it just amusing to see akebono lose again and again and again?

I forgot about the K-1 mma shows. They don't have many skilled ground fighters in there yet. It basically allows their K-1 stand up crew to ground and pound.

The original commentary team was probably the best but I don't see Mauro and Bas as being at each other's throats. It's working out pretty well for my friends and I, at least. Mauro is working at it and getting better, you have to give him that.

 

[Factor]

Not many skilled ground fighters? Umm... well, the last K-1 MMA main event was BJ Penn vs. Renzo Gracie. If that doesn't count as skilled ground fighters, I don't know what does.

Yes, Mauro is improving, but since there was no real reason to fire Quadros in the first place it still really pisses me off.

By the way, if y'allz are at all interested in MMA fighting, now's the perfect time to get into it. Spike TV now airs past UFC fights multiple times a week, including a slot after WWE Raw on Monday nights. And when Spike drops the WWE later this year, UFC is gonna be going primetime. Plus, Pride just signed a contract with FSN to have their own weekly show later this year as well, and they're currently in negotiations with the California Athletic Commission to have their first-ever show in America. Also, the next Pride pay-per-view (close to the end of the month) features the final round of their 2005 middleweight tournament as well as Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic vs. Fedor Emelianenko, which is probably the biggest, most feverishly anticipated MMA fight of all time.

 

[DarkAngel]

The normal K1 matches I have seen on cable TV are 80% boxing with a couple token kicks or knees thrown in.........

PRIDE and UFC style fights are more like the real deal, employ MMA (mixed martial arts) techniques that more closely resemble what real street fight would result in, especially UFC octagon which removes the boxing ring/ropes and lets fighters "get it on"

 

[r3cc0s]

The K1 fighters are easily some of the premier "strikers" in the world today
I really don't care about the Karate breaking champions or any Wushu bullcrap
as this sums it up:
*best movie line* Bricks don't hit back* lol

K1 is a good mix of fighters from many different striking styles and is primarily a stand up match
(Tae Kwan Do, Karate, Kick Boxing, Mui Thai, mixed styles etc...)

*Check out the former super stars: "Jerome Le Banner and Ernesto Hoost")

My Dad is a very good martial artist and he has trained since he was very young in many different styles, specifically southern shalom styles, like Wing Chun, Tiger (more close combat style)
He has taught me a few different styles of Kung Fu he learnt from the old country (hong kong)
I found most of the skill to be useless and more asthetically pleasing and even my Dad agrees.
I much rather encorporate skills which are more effecient and effective when requires to be used, than to "dazzle" the crowd.

I gave up Kung Fu when I was around 12 and went straight for Boxing. I was competitive for 5 years and have been coaching off/on since.

To suppliment myself to be a well rounded scrapper:
I was doing a wide variety of MMA and competitive boxing
What I encorporated from multiple Dojo's and university wrestling:
Boxing for hand striking
Tae Kwan Do kicking for more effecient leg striking
Mui Thai Knees or the French style is very good... I forgot the name
Hapkido for distant takedowns
Grecko Roman for groundwork positioning and strong takedowns
Gracie submissions

I can tell you that I am a very effecient fighter and the most important aspect to fighting is practice and strength.
*those who tell you that strenght is irrlevant has never really been hit*
In my prime I was a solid 6" 195 lbs at 7% body fat
I could bench press 360
My Right cross was 476 psi and my left was around 420
The strenght I built in my shoulders/neck really helped me absorb punishment when taken
and the back muscles and hips with strong tricepts really helped me through my strikes and graple

You can watch Jet Li do his fancy dances with great timing and speed. I still think the amount of power he generates is great for his size, yet I have never seen a real example, considering all his movies again are correographed.

Being a scrapper (Divisional golden gloves) and knowing how things are done inside and outside of the ring
It's tough to put fiction into reality

Also being a scrapper I have had my fair share of sprained wrists, ankles, califlowered ears,sprained knee's, broken teeth and broken eye orbit
Plus countless times of being knocked out and 1 solid concussion
It is all about being tenatious and persistant to never give up

There is one type of Martial Arts which is really quite amazing, but of which comes with skeptacism:
Internal Que Gong martial arts
Of which Tai Chi's roots, but so many other vicious internal styles like Sing Yi and Akiado
They do not use "external striking" but can use internal strength (almost seems like the force)
Of which is more of an ability to balance your ionic forces within your body (blood etc..)
To alter external forces... such as being able to block sharp objects with bare skin
To be able to almost use a telekinitic energy to destroy internal organs without harming one's skin
Or
can be used for healing...
I can tell you I was a skeptic until I met one master who asked me to come after him
He was 75 from Taiwan, my dad gave me the nod to really try
and I did
Whatever I tried I couldn't do anything
he would be able to just lift and throw me without any weight transfer at all
Even when I managed to land a solid uppercut to his sternim, It felt as if I was hitting some rebar and the vibrations just floated through my arms

My dad has been praticing this for a long while now (about 10 solid years)
He is at a point where can he make his hands heat up instantly on command and has been able to help with massaging certain pulls from my brother when he has basketball injuries

anyways my 2 cents about Martial Arts and the crap they show in movies

 

[Factor]

The line is "Boards don't hit back."

About the "Octagon" versus a ring, most MMA fans actually find that the UFC's Octagon or other cage arenas actually hinder the fight. In the UFC, many successful fighters use the stock tactic of grasping the opponent in a bodylock, driving them to the fence, taking them down and pinning their body against it, all the while throwing strikes to the head and face. The fighter in the down position has no wiggle room to try a submission, sweep or escape, and it makes for very boring, one-sided fighting.

In Pride, K-1 MMA, etc. they have the "stop, don't move" rule. If a ground fight has moved too close to the edge of the ring, the ref will wait for a break in the action and then stop the fighters, relocate them to the center of the ring and have them resume from the exact same position. It improves the quality of the fights dramatically.

Also, in the UFC it's legal to use the cage as leverage for your body (although I don't think you can actually grab it with your hand) and in Pride it is illegal to grab the ropes.

In MMA, basically I find that being successful in a ring is about having well-balanced skills of wrestling, striking, submission and everything in between, while doing well in fights fought in a cage are more about being a dominant wrestler and using the cage to your advantage. It's in the ring where the actual enclosure is less important, making it more like a legitimate street fight.

 

[r3cc0s]

Pride is the King of MMA

The cage is far too much of an advantage for those clumbsy ground and pounders who need to hold on to something to pin someone down

 

[ooheadsoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor Not many skilled ground fighters? Umm... well, the last K-1 MMA main event was BJ Penn vs. Renzo Gracie. If that doesn't count as skilled ground fighters, I don't know what does.

Yes, BJ is good and Renzo is a Gracie, but I don't think they are contracted, are they?

The complaint with the cages is that it's essentially another "rule." Though if you guys watched the last Pride Bushido with Murata and Ookubo, you can see that the ring does indeed get in the way and can be used to your advantage as well. In this case, Ookubo was able to armbar the superior judo practitioner because he had Murata pinned in the corner unable to get leverage. That and the Yoshida camp's insistence on wearing a gi.

Oh, and Jerome LeBanner is still a superstar in my book