Jazz....Where to start?

[tru blu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltrane /img/forum/go_quote.gif But any box set that has 2 and half discs of prewar jazz with only 2 electric jazz tracks and only 2 very mildly avant garde tracks does absolutely have a point of view.

Yes, but I don't think bigshot was talking about the box set. Burns has also released a whole series of single-disc compilations. Some, like the Thelonious Monk disc, even combine an artist's work from different labels. You're right that they leave out great, more recent stuff like David Murray and the Art Ensemble of Chicago, though.

One more record:

World Saxophone Quartet - Revue

 

[gaijin]

Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong - The Great Reunion
Duke Ellington - Masterpieces

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltrane /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its a good overview of early jazz. But any box set that has 2 and half discs of prewar jazz with only 2 electric jazz tracks and only 2 very mildly avant garde tracks does absolutely have a point of view.

2 1/2 disks of prewar jazz is barely scratching the surface of the most important era in jazz history. That's the period where everything jazz did for the next half century was invented. Early Jazz, Swing, 40s Big Band and Be Bop are the bulk of jazz history. A disk full of free jazz wouldn't be the best way to introduce anyone to the subject. And fusion crosses the line into rock music which is a different subject altogether. I think the balance on this set is perfect for a beginner to get his feet wet.

I have over 7,000 Jazz records and CDs from all time periods and I've been studying it passionately for over 20 years. The CDs that accompanied the Burns documentary were everything the documentary itself wasn't... comprehensive, balanced and consistent in quality.

See ya
Steve

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltrane /img/forum/go_quote.gif Absolutely. For so many jazz little more than an affectation, like smoking a pipe or speaking with a British accent. Unfortunately, a great deal of jazz recommendations on this site tend to be of the 'innocuous jazz as hip easy listening' variety. Oh well. There are lots of good recommendations also. Based on the OPs preference so far, I think DavidMahler's recommendations are his best options.

Don't you think that for someone just starting out, the more accessible music is a better suggestion. If someone recommends something that's not as accessible, and the OP buys that, the risk is that it might be the last jazz album the OP buys. I don't necessarily mean the OP in this thread, but the OPs in this type of thread.

Personally, I like how I started listening to jazz seriously. I started with a few compilation albums of artists I had read about. Career retrospectives are good for hearing many styles of music, at least for those musicians that didn't get stuck in one style. I also bought compilations that had a wide variety of styles and artists. For more inaccessible styles, I'm lucky. My local library has a pretty good collection of CDs. Rock/Pop is probably the least represented genre in their collection. They shy away from anything people might find offensive (Zappa), but don't shy away from stuff that most people will find unlistenable.

How I got into classical music is also a good way to get into a genre. I joined a record club that sent me a new LP every 3 weeks. It included everything from early music to 20th century. I didn't like everything I got, but I was exposed to a wide variety.

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, but I don't think bigshot was talking about the box set. Burns has also released a whole series of single-disc compilations. Some, like the Thelonious Monk disc, even combine an artist's work from different labels. You're right that they leave out great, more recent stuff like David Murray and the Art Ensemble of Chicago, though.

x2. They're what I mean when I talk about career retrospectives. You won't always like every track, but you'll have a good idea of what some of the big names in pre-70s jazz did. Good examples are the John Coltrane and Ornette Coleman CDs. They both give you flavors of their more and less accessible works.

They don't include any artist that made it big before the early 60s. Some, such as Herbie Handcock include music made up to the 80s.

 

[unclejr]

Oh good, I love when this thread appears in any iteration! Any top n list that claims to be definitive should be heavily qualified, by the way. Don't listen to them!

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh, and I strongly suggest avoiding bitches brew, unless you REALLY want way out there freeform

If you want to avoid the craziness, you can skip Ornette Coleman's Free Jazz and John Coltrane's Ascension!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchess of York /img/forum/go_quote.gif apart from the two cds mentioned above, i have only four Thelonious Monk tracks, and that makes up my jazz collection (currently). I really like the Thelonius Monk that i have, any recordings with piano that i cant miss?

Regarding Monk. (!) You can't really go wrong with Monk, since his style really did not change significantly throughout his entire recorded history. I start people off on "Straight, No Chaser"; "Monk."; or "Underground."

So if I were to make some suggestions, I'd say:

Miles Davis, Kind of Blue
Coltrane, A Love Supreme
The Quintet, Jazz At Massey Hall (notoriously awful recording, all the greats of bebop)
Duke Ellington, Charles Mingus, Max Roach, Money Jungle (one of my all time favorites)
Charles Mingus, Mingus Ah Um (really, this is a great Mingusian starting place)
Duke Ellington & John Coltrane (self-titled, beautiful album)
... along with a hundred more recommendations and much of what's been listed here.
Stan Getz/Joao Gilberto, Getz/Gilberto -- a wonderful introduction and a defining album for a beautiful movement of jazz bossa nova (also see Quincy Jones' Big Band Bossa Nova in lesson 2

).

As far as pianists go, try:
Monk
Bud Powell, his protégé
Horace Silver
Ellington
Andrew Hill
Art Tatum
John Medeski (especially his Piano Jazz session with Marian McPartland)
Anything that Hank Jones is on (Steal Away with Charlie Haden is among my favorites)
Jimmy Smith was an organist, for a more modern organ sound, check Neal Evans of Soulive

 

[Know Talent]

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue & Sketches of Spain & The Complete Birth of the Cool
Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Collosus
Shelly Manne - Perk Up
Dave Brubeck - Take Five
Thelonius Monk - Straight, No Chaser
Wayne Marsh & Lennie Tristano - Intuition
Bill Evans Trio - Sunday at the Village Vanguard
Wayne Shorter - JuJu & Night Dreamer & Speak No Evil
Herbie Hancock - Empryean Isles & Maiden Voyage
Duke Ellington - Live at Newport Jazz Festival
Bennie Goodman - Live at Carnegie Hall

If you like piano work check out Andrew Hill's Point of Departure or Judgement!


All these are standards...

Start with Kind of Blue, it's argueably one of the best recordings....period!!!

 

[unclejr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchess of York /img/forum/go_quote.gif What do people like for headphones/amps for jazz? I'm listening on my Grado SR225s now, stright out of my ipod, but i have HD650s and a CK2III amp ordered and on the way.

I got so excited I totally missed p.2.

I love the upfront presentation of Grados -- it's great for small combo stuff. Makes you feel like you're in a tiny, funky jazz club. I find the open, wider presentations of AKGs and whatnot kind of boring for the stuff I like. Now, Duke Ellington or Count Basie's great big bands, those might be interesting with bigger soundstages. I find that the Grados capture so much of the detail throughout the frequency spectrum; it's truly a treat.

My current hp amp is just an RSA Tomahawk from my iMod, to my Alessandros, which I think I prefer to the RS-1s though I couldn't really explain why yet, having spent so little time with the MS-2s.

Regarding the Ken Burns box -- I think it's actually a nice place to start regarding exposure. You can go from knowing next to nothing to knowing the basics in no time. Plus you'll have heard a lot of the names who created the music. Only jazz geeks care to argue the ins and outs, but it does present a lot of the jazz in a palatable form. Perhaps, like with all things, corroborate sources, read/hear from everywhere, and decide for yourself.

My journey through jazz has also been wonderful. It started with an enjoyment of R&B, gospel, and yes, hip hop through the eighties, which caused me to question its roots. Enter soul, some rock, jazz, and blues. I didn't know anyone else into it, so I went to a local library, found a ton of records and CDs, and started with the names I had heard somewhere and Judged Albums By Their Covers! A lot of stuff I wasn't feeling (Earl Klugh's Heart Strings) and a lot of stuff that has become staples in my listening (Miles Davis Complete Live at the Plugged Nickel 1965).

From there, I got interested in sidemen on the recordings I liked and track down their albums as bandleaders. I didn't actually read about jazz for a long, long time. It was more fun to listen for me.

Oh yeah, Herbie Hancock. How could I have forgotten. A pioneer in funky stuff. Start with Headhunters, listen to Thrust if you like it, and check out Future Shock for some hot eighties stuff.

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh, and I strongly suggest avoiding bitches brew, unless you REALLY want way out there freeform

Stick with In a Silent Way instead if you want progressive Miles.

 

[Sordel]

I'd certainly agree about avoiding Bitches Brew. Other than that, though, OP is in danger of building up the best small collection of jazz there is!

My approach was: know the source material and get used to how different performers approach it. Ella's Songbooks (or, at a pinch, Linda Ronstadt's trilogy of standards albums released as 'Round Midnight) would be a good introduction to the repertoire, and then try someone like the Keith Jarrett trio: Still Live isn't "classic jazz" territory but it's a pretty fantastic introduction to how improvising musicians work within the jazz tradition.

I'd also recommend Brad Mehldau's Live in Tokyo disc along similar lines.

 

[Wotan1]

What about
> Bill Evans > Walz for Debby
> Mingus > Tijuana Moods

Or contemporay
> Tord Gustavson > all his CD's
> E.S.T

Or Hip/Lounge jazz
> Marc Moulin
> Nellie Reese

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchess of York /img/forum/go_quote.gif What do people like for headphones/amps for jazz? I'm listening on my Grado SR225s now, stright out of my ipod, but i have HD650s and a CK2III amp ordered and on the way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclejr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I got so excited I totally missed p.2. I love the upfront presentation of Grados -- it's great for small combo stuff. Makes you feel like you're in a tiny, funky jazz club. I find the open, wider presentations of AKGs and whatnot kind of boring for the stuff I like. Now, Duke Ellington or Count Basie's great big bands, those might be interesting with bigger soundstages. I find that the Grados capture so much of the detail throughout the frequency spectrum; it's truly a treat.

And I like the AKGs for any genre of music and don't like the Grados for any

so YMMV

 

[Bootleg]

In the hopes of taking Jazz listening to a higher level, I've ordered a Stax system. Right now my favorite Jazz cans are the Denon D5000's, but the Senn HD650's are creeping in now that I have bent the headband via extreme force: no more clamping!

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bootleg /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the hopes of taking Jazz listening to a higher level, I've ordered a Stax system. Right now my favorite Jazz cans are the Denon D5000's, but the Senn HD650's are creeping in now that I have bent the headband via extreme force: no more clamping!

I alternate between a vintage Stax SR-5, AKG K601 and a vintage Fostex T30 for all of my home listening. Occasionally I'll listen to a K240 Sextett, K400, K500.

At work I listen to MB Quart QP85, AKG K240 Sextett, and Senn HD580. To eliminate the clamp on the HD580, I extended the ear cups and stretched them over my computer for 2 weeks. When I first put them on, still fully extended, they almost fell off my head. The clamp disappeared entirely.

 

[Spyro]

I guess I'm a little biased but other than a few "standards" I think new (young people that listen to rock) people should start with contemporary jazz and work backwards from there. It's a much easier transition from rock. It's a lot easier to go from Dream Theater to, say, Dave Weckl Band or Yellowjackets than going to Bill Evans or Coltrane or Monk.