[abZ]

I am in to Bill Evans. Dave Brubeck is awesome too.

 

[jsaliga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif The thing about my taste is I, um, like it, and think other folks might get some pleasure out of it, too.

Well, sure. But don't you find these threads to be a bit repetitive? I just don't mean with the requests, but also the replies.

Just an observation....but people seldom, if ever, recommend:

1. Jazz vocals
2. Contemporary modern creative
3. Crossover jazz
4. Avant Garde
5. Progressive jazz

When was the last time you have seen in a thread like this someone recommending something by Anthony Braxton, or Pat Metheny, or Joe Sample, or even Bill Frisell?

Perhaps these threads need a fresh infusion of new suggestions instead of a ton of people recommending Kind of Blue (essential listening no doubt, but one suggestion should be enough

). I fall into the same old habits too, and I think it's time to change that. I'm not advocating the abandonment of the core essentials of jazz in these threads, but some variety (and I don't mean a variety of just bop or hard bop) can provide the beginning jazz listener with an apprecation of the immense scope of the music.

--Jerome

 

[Spyro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, sure. But don't you find these threads to be a bit repetitive? I just don't mean with the requests, but also the replies. Just an observation....but people seldom, if ever, recommend: 1. Jazz vocals 2. Contemporary modern creative 3. Crossover jazz 4. Avant Garde 5. Progressive jazz When was the last time you have seen in a thread like this someone recommending something by Anthony Braxton, or Pat Metheny, or Joe Sample, or even Bill Frisell? Perhaps these threads need a fresh infusion of new suggestions instead of a ton of people recommending Kind of Blue (essential listening no doubt, but one suggestion should be enough ). I fall into the same old habits too, and I think it's time to change that. I'm not advocating the abandonment of the core essentials of jazz in these threads, but some variety (and I don't mean a variety of just bop or hard bop) can provide the beginning jazz listener with an apprecation of the immense scope of the music. --Jerome

EXCELLENT POST....couldn't agree more and it's the stuff Jerome mentions above which will often bridge a person from the crossover from rock to jazz. It can be tough trying to get into jazz going from Aerosmith or AC/DC to Bill Evans or Monk.

 

[ruknd]

As it was said above...Miles Kind of Blue but also look at Bitches Brew. This will let you see his influence on other music more clearly.

I would also go with some Herbie Hancock try Maiden Voyage and Possibilities which is a duet album where he plays with some people you may know (it may push the boundaries of what Jazz is and move closer to rock/pop). His 1+1 with wayne shorter is also awesome.

And for new Jazz look into Medeski Martin & Wood. Pick any album. I like Shack-man or Tonic. These guys are just insanely sick and they play live alot (at least in NYC...they are from Brooklyn).

 

[jsaliga]

In the service of variety, and having some knowledge of the OP's prior threads, I am going to step outside the box and suggest the titles below.

1. Ralph Towner - Anthem Towner brought the six string classical guitar to jazz, and in many cases the result is truly stunning. His lyrical and contemplative style of playing can be relaxed and assertive. Anthem is arguably his best solo album. Highly recommended.

2. Bill Frisell, Ron Carter, Paul Motian Guitarist Bill Frisell collaborates with two giants of jazz to bring us a wonderful modern creative gem. People who enjoy electric guitar will find a lot to like about Frisell's tone.

3. The John Abercrombie Quartet - Class trip Abercrombie's signature mellow guitar tones blend wonderfully with piano, drums, and violin.

4. Charles Lloyd - Forest Flower: Charles Lloyd at Monterey A great album from Lloyd's early post-bop and modern creative period before he turned to the Avant Garde for inspiration.

--Jerome

 

[tru blu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the point was not about influence or significance per se, but rather about how looking at things a certain way always leads to the same choices. I think if you were to get a bunch of jazz scholars together and mention Lucky Strikes, there'd be a pretty big consensus that the album is fantastic and easily accessible to someone who might not be all that familiar with jazz. (For the sake of argument, I'd say it's on a par with Blue Train, but maybe not Crescent or A Love Supreme.) But it might not be the first record that comes to mind when making recommendations, perhaps because we know that people wanna deal with names they've heard before first. I'm just suggesting that doing that automatically cuts out a whole lot of great music and potential listening pleasure.

I've made that point about the samey-ness of recommendations on several of these threads already, but in the final analysis, Jazz 101 is what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif But don't you find these threads to be a bit repetitive? I just don't mean with the requests, but also the replies. Just an observation....but people seldom, if ever, recommend: 1. Jazz vocals 2. Contemporary modern creative 3. Crossover jazz 4. Avant Garde 5. Progressive jazz When was the last time you have seen in a thread like this someone recommending something by Anthony Braxton, or Pat Metheny, or Joe Sample, or even Bill Frisell? Perhaps these threads need a fresh infusion of new suggestions instead of a ton of people recommending Kind of Blue (essential listening no doubt, but one suggestion should be enough ). I fall into the same old habits too, and I think it's time to change that. I'm not advocating the abandonment of the core essentials of jazz in these threads, but some variety (and I don't mean a variety of just bop or hard bop) can provide the beginning jazz listener with an apprecation of the immense scope of the music.

Not that big a fan of Anthony Braxton, but no biggie; I just heard the rapper T.I. on a record say something like, "Opinions are like Escalades, everybody has one." Simply put, as much as I'd like the whole world to be into, say, Marion Brown's Three For Shepp, I think it's probably more helpful to make suggestions that are more about the OP than myself—no matter how repetitious. There're only 24 hours in a day, and most folks don't want to spend nearly as much time as I do (and have) appreciating "the immense scope of [any style of] music."

Of course, it helps when the OP can actually be a bit more pointed about what they're looking for—admittedly, something of an impossibility if you're coming at this from zero. In the event that's not possible I've kinda resigned myself (as I said above) to the fact that Jazz 101 is what it is. I don't actually listen to Kind Of Blue anymore, but I've marveled at it in enough social situations to understand why it endures.

 

[aug_aug]

I would have to recommmend Aaron Parks - Invisible Cinema. According to reviews it's like indie rock mixed with Jazz, this might ease you into jazz assuming you're already into rock. What does anyone else think of this album?

Otherwise classic Jazz you must get includes: Thelonius, Davis, Coltrane, Adderly, Lionel Hampton, probably all mentioned above already.

Just google "best jazz albums XXXX (insert year)", have your local library hold page on another tab. That's what I do and then queue them up/pick up for listening.

 

[Nocturnal310]

i went out and heard some Stan Getz tracks..liked the music.

where would u classify him in jazz?

thanks for the enthusiastic replies....there's so much..i dont know where to start.

 

[jsaliga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not that big a fan of Anthony Braxton, but no biggie; I just heard the rapper T.I. on a record say something like, "Opinions are like Escalades, everybody has one." Simply put, as much as I'd like the whole world to be into, say, Marion Brown's Three For Shepp, I think it's probably more helpful to make suggestions that are more about the OP than myself—no matter how repetitious. There're only 24 hours in a day, and most folks don't want to spend nearly as much time as I do (and have) appreciating "the immense scope of [any style of] music."

*Sigh* Clearly we don't see eye to eye on this subject. And I would suspect that most people see it the same way you do. Perhaps I am not doing a good enough job of making my point, but in any case this is getting to be too much work for me to make it worthwhile. But it was never about Anthony Braxton so why you decided to take a shot at that is beyond me.

Quote:

Of course, it helps when the OP can actually be a bit more pointed about what they're looking for—admittedly, something of an impossibility if you're coming at this from zero.

Thanks for impeaching your own point for me. But, suppose for a moment if everyone who asks for jazz recommendations (coming from zero) gets page after page bop and hard bop suggestions. Then these listeners discover that they don't much care for hard bop and they like bop even less. And then they conclude that jazz sucks because they are unwilling to invest a little more time in coming back to their thread to solicit more suggestions. If you preceived the few hundred suggestions you got to be crap, how much better do you think additional suggestions are likely to be? And since no one bothered to suggest anything else in the first place, the potential jazz listeners never got to fusion or modern creative or other forms of jazz that they might have actually enjoyed. Instead they end up being disenfranchised from the music completely.

Hmm...I just find it a little disappointing that a forum with some tremendously knowledgeable jazz listeners can't, or won't, do better than that.

--Jerome

 

[musicmind]

Hey Nocturnal310

Glad you like Stan Getz, his tone is probably one of the most admired on tenor sax.
His playing probably falls under the "west coast" or "cool jazz" categories, so you might also enjoy other players like Paul Desmond (alto sax), Gerry Mulligan (baritone sax), Chet Baker (trumpet).

Here are some that I think you might like :

Amazon.com: Night Lights: Gerry Mulligan: Music

Amazon.com: The Paul Desmond Quartet with Jim Hall: Paul Desmond Quartet with Jim Hall: Music

Amazon.com: Chet: Chet Baker: Music

Amazon.com: Concierto: Jim Hall: Music






Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 /img/forum/go_quote.gif i went out and heard some Stan Getz tracks..liked the music. where would u classify him in jazz? thanks for the enthusiastic replies....there's so much..i dont know where to start.

 

[tru blu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif But it was never about Anthony Braxton so why you decided to take a shot at that is beyond me.

My point was about opinions, not about Braxton, per se. I brought up Marion Brown because even though he's a personal fave, I feel like his brilliance is more easily questioned than Miles Davis's—and I think that's OK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for impeaching your own point for me. But, suppose for a moment if everyone who asks for jazz recommendations (coming from zero) gets page after page bop and hard bop suggestions. Then these listeners discover that they don't much care for hard bop and they like bop even less. And then they conclude that jazz sucks because they are unwilling to invest a little more time in coming back to their thread to solicit more suggestions. Hmm...I just find it a little disappointing that a forum with some tremendously knowledgeable jazz listeners can't, or won't, do better than that.

Not sure how I impeached my own point, but no matter. Bottom line: I think it's OK for people to not like jazz, rock, or any other type of music. To each their own. I'd just prefer they not be ignorant about it, and spout silly things like, "All saxophone sucks!" cuz they didn't warm up to Coltrane, on the one hand, or Kenny G, on the other. I've actually had long arguments on the "Rap sucks!" thread about that kind of chauvinism. Here's the other thing: The forum is a dialogue. If we treat it that way, then there's no shame in anyone coming back to the forum and admitting that they prefer, say, Fall Out Boy over Miles. If they're still interested in exploring jazz after coming to that conclusion, well, for me it'd be interesting to find out just what kind of jazz that Fall Out Boy fan will respond favorably to.

 

[Morph201]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif *Sigh* Clearly we don't see eye to eye on this subject. And I would suspect that most people see it the same way you do. Perhaps I am not doing a good enough job of making my point, but in any case this is getting to be too much work for me to make it worthwhile. But it was never about Anthony Braxton so why you decided to take a shot at that is beyond me. Thanks for impeaching your own point for me. But, suppose for a moment if everyone who asks for jazz recommendations (coming from zero) gets page after page bop and hard bop suggestions. Then these listeners discover that they don't much care for hard bop and they like bop even less. And then they conclude that jazz sucks because they are unwilling to invest a little more time in coming back to their thread to solicit more suggestions. If you preceived the few hundred suggestions you got to be crap, how much better do you think additional suggestions are likely to be? And since no one bothered to suggest anything else in the first place, the potential jazz listeners never got to fusion or modern creative or other forms of jazz that they might have actually enjoyed. Instead they end up being disenfranchised from the music completely. Hmm...I just find it a little disappointing that a forum with some tremendously knowledgeable jazz listeners can't, or won't, do better than that. --Jerome

I really think you're putting way too much thought into this. Maybe we should view it, as with anything in life, as a journey. Most "jazz newbs" (which I still consider myself) come into it at the point of swing, bop, post-bop perhaps? Which represents a less chanllenging starting point, now there are an infinite number of sub-genres, but for the most part straight ahead jazz is usually a good entry point. Not that I see anything wrong with the album, but I would never recommend "Black Saint and the Sinner Lady" to someone JUST entering jazz, I would probably go with "Mingus Ah Um", and let the listener journey from there.

It's not a perfect science, for YEARS I couldn't get it... although my grandfather tried to introduce me to it, I just didn't get it. Then eventually, I thought listening to Kenny G, and David Sanborn was it..

finally, one day I heard "Freddie Freeloader" while sipping a beer at a local bar and it CLICKED! Who knows! Maybe it was the atmosphere (right amount of alcohol, smoke, pool tables....) that helped it, but whatever the reason it clicked! And I was hooked! I searched and searched and still search, it took me at least 4 years to realize the type of sound I like. I recommend that the OP take this with a grain of salt and realize that there are suggestions, but it's not the END POINT.. merely a stepping stone.. Keep searching until you find that particular sound, style, you like... and if you're old enough have drink while ya at it, may help to get you there quicker!

 

[jsaliga]

I give up.

 

[Morph201]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif I give up.

*sigh* ... The Unbearable Lightness of Being



Side note: OP: Charles Tolliver is sounding exquisite today! You might wanna check out some of his work!

 

[jsaliga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morph201 /img/forum/go_quote.gif *sigh* ... The Unbearable Lightness of Being

Perhaps. But when my efforts to discuss this subject are met with critiques of my suggestions, then I think it is time to throw in the towel and walk away.

Whether it is due to my failure to clearly articulate my ideas or just the adversarial nature of a forum such as this is no longer relevant.

This just isn't a productive use of my time.

Have fun.

--Jerome