IT geeks help - ever deploy a reverse proxy?
Jan 31, 2003 at 6:14 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 19

neil

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We were lucky enough to run into a swinging deal on a nice proxy/accelerator appliance (CacheFlow 3000 series) on the cheap. Just wondering if anyone out there has experience in configuring reverse proxies on routers/firewalls (to sit in front of a web farm to help alleviate server utilization).

Again, I'm not talking about setting up a proxy for clients at an office to browse through, but configuring as a reverse proxy. I have it running at the office right now, just for fun, as a standard proxy. Beautiful little (big, actually) machine!
 
Jan 31, 2003 at 10:47 PM Post #2 of 19
Well my husband and I read it, he has a job as workstation support, and I'm qualified to have his job if any Finnish company actually needed English-speaking help.
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..Anyways, we put our heads together, and we ended up all inverted and upside down, trying to figure out what you mean.

I guess we don't know enough.. we kept trying to take the concept of a proxy and reverse it, but we ended back up at the definition of a proxy.

But now we wanna know - what do you mean by reverse proxy? Are you wanting the cashe to be like a web server for people visiting your site? Lame attempt I know, but we tied ourselves in knots trying to figure it out.
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Ok guys - get your heads out of the gutters, if I ment what I said about my husband and I literally, I wouldn't be posting about it at Head-fi!
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I'm gonna go play with my BT dongle now..
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Jan 31, 2003 at 10:51 PM Post #3 of 19
Hi there. I'm just really wondering if anyone has deplolyed a caching appliance such as the CacheFlow or other medium/high-end appliance as a reverse proxy.. it's a proxy server that takes in all port 80/443 requests first, and if it has the object(s) fresh, it delivers the data; however, if it needs the data, it pulls it from the web-server farm, and then delivers it. It acts as an accelerator.

Usually, a router or firewall intercepts the port 80/443 requests ahead of the proxy server.
 
Jan 31, 2003 at 11:34 PM Post #4 of 19
Oh right, we were making it a bit more complicated.

Hmmm.. well, I don't know enough about real firewalls and security issues...

I'm just a home-user. In a Firewall program you could just say "don't look at those ports", but somehow I think you mean a real firewall. They should be configurable. I know we had a Nokia adsl modem that had it's own firewall. You opened up it's little webpage for configuration and could tweak this sorta stuff, but again, that's not a business-grade firewall, and your security person might have a heart attack.

Well I know enough when to say it's above my head, and it's definately above my head. Sorry
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Feb 1, 2003 at 12:13 AM Post #5 of 19
Quote:

Originally posted by plainsong
Oh right, we were making it a bit more complicated.

Hmmm.. well, I don't know enough about real firewalls and security issues...

I'm just a home-user. In a Firewall program you could just say "don't look at those ports", but somehow I think you mean a real firewall. They should be configurable. I know we had a Nokia adsl modem that had it's own firewall. You opened up it's little webpage for configuration and could tweak this sorta stuff, but again, that's not a business-grade firewall, and your security person might have a heart attack.

Well I know enough when to say it's above my head, and it's definately above my head. Sorry
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I don't think this is what he means, but if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

While I've never really run a proxy of any sort, let alone a dedicated box for proxy, here's my explanation of what he's looking for, and maybe someone out there can help. [Although I think that anyone with the ability to help would be able to decipher exactly what he was asking anywa..
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]

Anyhow, in a nutshell, a proxy server basically takes data that's been requested and caches it for future requests. This is usually done on the ISP/equivalent of service provider end to limit the bandwidth that comes in, if the webpage was already requested. For instance, user A accesses www.cnn.com through ISP A's proxy server. The proxy server would then cache the page and the images associated with it. user B comes along and requests the same page through ISP A's proxy server. Instead of requesting the page again from www.cnn.com's server, it just displays what was cached minutes prior.

What Neil means by "reverse proxy server" is basically, how does one set up a proxy server that isn't on the ISP/client end, but rather on the server end. Instead of multiple requests constantly hitting his webserver, they would instead hit the Cacheflow box, taking a huge load off the web server. The Cacheflow would occasionally check the main webserver to see if a specific page had been updated, and if so, to cache that page and serve it.

As I've never worked with Cacheflow or any proxy servers [like I said above], I can't really say much for how to set it up. However, I'm not seeing the logic in this... If you're going to have all of the load directed toward the proxy server, instead of the webserver getting bogged down, the proxy server is going to get bogged down... but in the end, it hits a bottleneck at the same place -- the server serving data...

Unless the Cacheflow is a whole lot better than the server, I'd just stay with what works.. but that's me.
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[What are the specs of the Cacheflow and what are the specs of the server(s) in the farm?]

One exception I can see is if you have multiple servers in the farm that serve a variety of data that you want the proxy server to check and aggregate in one place, rather than have clients access all the servers directly... but this would only contribute to proxy load...

Here's how I would think it would work [and again, I've never worked with proxy servers in a real environment, so I can't say whether or not this actually works..]: Set up the server so that it will take any incoming requests to www.blahblahblah.com and act like those are clients behind a proxy. Then, somehow have the proxy server turn around and either serve data, or check for an updated copy from the website in question... So basically, your servers will be the "outside" world, and the "outside world" [ie: internet] will be "behind" the proxy.

I don't know if this makes any sense... but who knows, might give you some ideas...

-Andy
 
Feb 1, 2003 at 1:49 AM Post #6 of 19
This is what we were originally thinking, but then we didn't see the logic in it and assumed we didn't understand. If you're right, good job explaining it better than I did.
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Where's the long haired bearded guru wearing the "gnu is not linux" t-shirt that can confirm/deny this?
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Quote:

Originally posted by vwap
I don't think this is what he means, but if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.


-Andy


 
Feb 1, 2003 at 1:53 AM Post #7 of 19
Quote:

Originally posted by plainsong
This is what we were originally thinking, but then we didn't see the logic in it and assumed we didn't understand. If you're right, good job explaining it better than I did.
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Where's the long haired bearded guru wearing the "gnu is not linux" t-shirt that can confirm/deny this?
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Heh.. I couldn't see the logic in it, either... so I'm confused, too
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I'm Windows all the way here... I've tried linux.. but I just don't have long enough hair to understand it, apparently... I just ain't 1337 enuf.
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Feb 1, 2003 at 3:07 AM Post #8 of 19
Quote:

Originally posted by vwap
Heh.. I couldn't see the logic in it, either... so I'm confused, too
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I'm Windows all the way here... I've tried linux.. but I just don't have long enough hair to understand it, apparently... I just ain't 1337 enuf.
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*laughs* My husband used the Debian distribution for a while, and bounced back and forth from KDE to Gnome/Enlightment. I always prefered the Next one..was it called Openstep? Can't remember..

But this is just as users, I mean, he made some really great themes in his day, but in the end he went back to Windows.

I went to OsX, so I guess you could say I stayed with the Next Interface.

But his hair is buzzed short, and I recently got mine cut into a short-but-still-shaggy-textured deal, and neither of us have long beards.
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I think we have 'Tux lying around here somewhere, but somehow I don't think that's going to solve the problem.

*giggles* This thread has taken a turn for the worse and it's all my fault.
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Feb 1, 2003 at 5:01 PM Post #9 of 19
Quote:

Unless the CacheFlow is a whole lot better than the server, I'd just stay with what works.. but that's me. [What are the specs of the Cacheflow and what are the specs of the server(s) in the farm?]


The CacheFlow appliance is a whole lot better at delivering objects than a standard web server for a couple reasons: 1. The "hot" objects, ones that are requested often, are kept in RAM and are served up quickly and immediately; 2. The CacheFlow OS is optimized around just blasting out objects of all sizes (large and small) easily handling 5,000 to 10,000 concurrent connections. The OS is proprietary, the cache size is scalable (hot-swap/add/remove disks), and the statistics and configurability are out of this world.

The server specs of the farm and diverse -- it's really a cluster of servers meshed together with a load balancer. The goal is to simply have the proxy serve the results rather than the results to be pulled from the farm. (probably being very repetitive on this point)

Anyhow, still, if there's anyone who has had personal experience with force-forwarding port requests to a proxy server, I'd really like to ask some questions about your firewall/router config, firewall config, as well as your server (Apache/IIS) network config.

Thanks!
 
Feb 3, 2003 at 6:28 PM Post #11 of 19
Quote:

Originally posted by plainsong
*laughs* My husband used the Debian distribution for a while, and bounced back and forth from KDE to Gnome/Enlightment. I always prefered the Next one..was it called Openstep? Can't remember..

I went to OsX, so I guess you could say I stayed with the Next Interface.

I think we have 'Tux lying around here somewhere, but somehow I don't think that's going to solve the problem.


I'll admit that I really liked KDE.. But on the system I had it running on, it was painfully slow... But trying to set up a firewall was a pain in the ass. I'm just not techie enough to understand the HOWTOs on ipchains apparently.
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But I do love tux. In fact ... I have a voodoo doll of him sitting around here somewhere...
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Sorry I couldn't help more with the setup of the CacheFlow... I need to go get a better job or something... where I can get more exposure to cool stuff like that. My only experience with a server is.. my own.. and getting 10 hits a week isn't enough to justify anything cool.
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Feb 3, 2003 at 11:40 PM Post #12 of 19
Quote:

Originally posted by taoster
arent you just describing a normal gateway?


No. It's a port specific gateway, if you want to look at it that way, in the sense that a firewall or router will detect traffic at that TCP port (80/443) and redirect it to the caching/proxy-appliance first.
 
Feb 4, 2003 at 5:18 AM Post #13 of 19
This should definitely be doable. For example, I know some ISPs use proxies to reduce load. That's why sometimes when you visit a webpage after it's been updated in real life, depending on your ISP, sometimes you'll keep getting your ISP's cached page until the ISP proxy cache refreshes.

Can't you set the proxy server up as a normal proxy server except have it accept connections from the global port instead of the local one?

Another idea would be to get a load balancing device and have a mirror of the server...but I guess you don't have that equipment
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Sep 7, 2004 at 12:00 PM Post #15 of 19
Quote:

Originally Posted by commando
I'd talk to the cacheflow manufacturer first, but that's just me. They might have support forums too.


Did you catch the date on the post?
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My guess is that Neil may have figured it out by now.
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