[jaghouse]

Made in a quality concerned facility.... I could care less where its built as long as its built well.

I had second thoughts about sending $800 to Thailand for a CD player. But it turns out, the CD-1 build is fantastic.

Talk about build quality on the opposite ends of the spectrum: the MG Head is a little shaky whereas the Cyber-20 is in tank mode. Both made in China. I guess that is what warrants the Cyber's higher price tag... but you do get a solid unit.

It does suck that good paying manufacturing jobs are leaving the US. Is this making the gap between rich and poor that much wider?

Too many Americans are concerned about image and not quality. Good looking and inexpensive do not require much QC.

 

[cajunchrist]

"Too many Americans are concerned about image and not quality. Good looking and inexpensive do not require much QC."

You've struck on the ugly truth of capitalism. Capitalism doesn't encourage business to create quality products, it encourages business to create profitable products. The mantra of management in the 90's has been "increasing shareholder value" meaning, make the bottom line bigger. Do you do that by making a product that costs more money to make, and hope people will pay more money for your product that is better built but costs 20% more than your competitor's product?

Nope. You increase shareholder value by outsourcing parts manufacturing to lower wage countries if they can make parts cheaper, or outsourcing product assembly if they can build the product more cheaply.

International economics in the dawning era of globalism is a complex web of loyalties. Think about it: even since NAFTA, US unemployment is at a ridiculously low 4%. Some western european countries would be dancing in the street if they could get their unemployment in to single digits. Our economy is fundamentally very healthy, not like the chronically ill Japanese economy. Just because some manufacturing sector jobs are going overseas doesn't mean our US government is attempting to make US citizens unemployed. We are changing to the 'knowledge economy' model where making physical things is not the focus.

 

[jaghouse]

Of course the US gov. wants to keep unemployment low so they dont have to spend as much in unemployment and wellfare.

My only concern is that manufacturing jobs are relatively well paying. So when people get laid off from these jobs are they able to find work with comparable pay? How are the manufacturing jobs being replaced?

 

[aeberbach]

Quote:

Sorry to imply that different nationalities weren't capable of the same craftsmanship. I thought I had emphasized training.

Exactly right. You only have to look at the garbage that Japan used to produce and compare the excellent quality products coming out of Japan now. Remember "Back to the Future"? When Japanese companies set out to produce the world's best anything they generally succeed or at least come very close, and the reason is not inherent skill, diligence or even the right raw materials but a learned obsession with quality.

 

[Ctn]

I would pick the same product that's made in Japan over anywhere else anyday...Its pretty much a no brainer.

 

[gaineso]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ctn I would pick the same product that's made in Japan over anywhere else anyday...Its pretty much a no brainer.

If I've got an option, I'll stick to American. Yamaha & Suzuki are still trying to figure out how Mercury builds outboards, and even the JohnRude twins are far superior. The Japanese motors, especially Yamaha, have bells, whistles, high prices, lower performance, and lower reliability than the American motors.

It's just too bad that OMC went under and Johnson/Evinrude ended up as Bombardier, a French Canadian Co. I think Bombardier will probably improve the motors as they kept the old plants and people.

Anyway, with very few exceptions, American made is the best there is. Electronics, a few European brands, and maybe a couple of Japanese brands, but the high end is highly populated by USA brands. Cars, terribly overpriced European and Japanese brands that can't begin to compete bang for buck with American, in any way including Quality, so therefore make a big rep on high prices and gimmicks, bells/whistles.

As previously stated, where makes a big difference when you take the training issues and all that was discussed earlier. The biggest thing though just may be philosophy. Design, engineering etc. Yeah, we, USA, ceded a lot of the low and mid ground to the Asians, but the best still comes from here. We are the largest market, and no one understands our market like we do.

 

[Audio-Me]

Location makes no difference, quality is quality! It doesn't matter where the hell a product that I buy is made, if it's good, IT IS GOOD.

 

[lextek]

I thought Honda outboard are pretty, highly rated.

Lextek

 

[gaineso]

Quote:

Originally posted by lextek I thought Honda outboard are pretty, highly rated. Lextek

Very, very expensive and very heavy. They just came out with high horse power engines.

Good gas mileage, and doesn't burn oil in the gas, but the new EFI's from Mercury and JohnRude meet 2008 emissions anyway. Very stiff price penalty for Honda's, especially since you're also suffering significant performance penalties.

 

[joeyliao]

i agree location usually does not matter, it is quality that matters. but quality is something that is more dependent on the producing company's philosophy than location.

you could have a slack US company which produces everything in the US and the products wont be as good as a company in China that is focusing on building products that last.

when i was growing up in Maryland, i remember we bought alot of US made stuff, particularly cars (my parents were immigrants and as immigrants they were ready to buy everything American to show how grateful they were for being able to live in such a great country)

but when it came to cars, all the US made cars we bought gave us so much trouble, we eventually bought Japanese and German... and our troubles went away.

anyway, now that i live in Asia, i usually buy stuff made in Japan (if i have a choice). i find that the workmanship is better because Japan in general has the "quality culture". China on the other hand does not. but that is not to say you cannot find high quality goods from China, you just have to look for companies and brands that are (usually small) and focused more on quality than making big profits.

as for multinationals that are taking their manufacturing overseas, i am sure they are also trying to export their manufacturing techniques as well, but sometimes the execution leaves something to be desired. the problem is that sometimes the people who end up doing the manufacturing dont care as much... partly because it is not in their culture....

and partly because the company that is setting up the new plant in in X developing country feel that they can cut corners and costs.... in return for higher margins...

gaineso, i feel the same as you when i have an option.. i would like to buy American when i have the choice, but i disagree that that in general, American made is the best there is.

what about cameras? optical lenses, video cameras(consumer and professional), computers, tvs (CRT and flat screen)? cd/dvd players? i cant think of one US made brand that is considered good, let alone great.
(then there are consumables.... beer? chocolate? ... two of my favorite categories...)

audio equipment (amps, speakers) is sort of a toss up as some of the high end names have been bought by foreign countries and the products are now made abroad.

cars... well, some people in the international community would say our taste in cars is not that sophisticated... and you know my experience with mechanical reliability...

yes, the US is a one of the largest homogenious markets, and American companies understand the American market the best. But just because American made stuff is the best for the American market does not mean it is the best period.

"Best" in my view tends to be very subjective, because "best" usually cant be applied to mass goods - by default we are talking niche products, and the best niche product producers can be found anywhere, because as i argued above, it all revolves around the company's philosophy and dedication to quality.

 

[aeberbach]

Quote:

Cars, terribly overpriced European and Japanese brands that can't begin to compete bang for buck with American, in any way including Quality, so therefore make a big rep on high prices and gimmicks, bells/whistles.

By bang for buck I guess you mean affordable mediocrity. When Detroit engineers learn about suspension and handling (hint: comfort is not the only thing to aim for) I'll test drive another American car. I guess I won't talk about styling because some people genuinely like the look of American cars, but for me the last really beautiful one was the '66 Corvette.

 

[Audio-Me]

The hell with new cars, old American FoMoCo & Mopar V8's are the best. *sticks out tongue* With a few exceptions, like Aston Martin V8 Vantage, BMW M5, Audi S8, etc.

"Made in Japan means highest quality", "American is the best in the world at everything" and so fourth... I highly disagree with products made in any country being GENERALLY of high quality. It's all manufacturer dependant. What the hell difference does it make if you make the same thing in one place or the other? It comes down to quality of parts and craftsmanship.

My first comment about cars, is my personal preference, some classic American V8s absolutely suck. This applies to every other product line in the world.

 

[Duncan]

I take issue with the statement that Brits like British things...

The phenomenon started back in the 1960s with the Spendor LS63 speakers that were made in Cambridge (UK)... they set the British audio scene on fire... pushed us to the forefront for a while... but, to me personally I share no interest in British... If i'm honest, apart from VERY Hi-End equipment, British gear sucks!!

Sony, JVC, Marantz, Panasonic <-- All Japanese companies...
Cambridge Soundworks <-- American company
Sennheiser <-- German Company
Mission (Cyrus) <-- British

They are the main companies that I have bought equipment from, and the only reason that I bought the Cyrus gear is because it was well reviewed, and expensive... but I could have just as easily bought Technics or whatever?!

I'm not particularily proud of Britains audio history (With companies like Goodmans... who would be!!) So, I'm waving the Worldwide flag here... no patrionism whatsoever

 

[gaineso]

Quote:

Originally posted by aeberbach By bang for buck I guess you mean affordable mediocrity. When Detroit engineers learn about suspension and handling (hint: comfort is not the only thing to aim for) I'll test drive another American car. I guess I won't talk about styling because some people genuinely like the look of American cars, but for me the last really beautiful one was the '66 Corvette.

Try the new 'Vette, generally regarded as one of the best of the best. Also, the Camaro/Firebird twins. For a real treat and an incredible rush, the latest Mustang Cobra. Also the late lamented Impala SS, the Mercury Marauder, and a few others. Try out a pickup truck that will eat most of Germany's best, the SVT Lightning. And the ultimate, under $100K super car, the triple 500 Viper.

Styling, the last good thing from BMW was the 507 in the '50s. Same for Mercedes with the 300SL, not the roadster. The best design from Japan is the now discontinued Accura NSX, which also happened to be a world class "Super Car."

My Durango is a far superior vehicle, as a Sport UTILITY Vehicle than anything made in Japan or Germany. When I throw half a ton of test gear in the back and still out drag most of the Japanese and German versions, well, good old American cubic inches. It's based on a truck, it's used as a truck and the only trucks that come close say Ford or GM on them. If I want an SUV as a status symbol, I'll buy a Mustang Cobra instead.

 

[Audio-Me]

1998 5.9L V8 Magnum Dodge Dakota Sport 4x4 Club Cab 5-Speed manual. One love.

Have any of you guys tried the Tornado "fuel saver" thing? Does that actually work, or is it pure ********? Upto 20HP increase for only $80 my ass.

Most bang for buck current sports car - Mustang Cobra
If I had the money, I'd get a Saleen S281-E, over any Vette, AcHondura NSX, Yota supra, Mit GT3000, Crapmaro, ****bird, pOrsche, etc. Of course I'd invest mad money on detectors and jammers.