Isolation equipment (especially feet)
Jan 29, 2004 at 1:36 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 9

BANGPOD

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Isolation equipment, especially feet...

Does it (they) make a difference (I am uninformed)?
If so, how large is this difference? Is it noticeable?
Are they worth the money? Why or why not?

BANGPOD
 
Jan 29, 2004 at 10:26 PM Post #2 of 9
They are meant for speaker setups. To reduce vibrations from the speakers.

It would be more important for sources, more importantly turntables, which are prone to balance issues and vibrations. Maybe CD Players/Transports.

I tried using vibration damping feet or placing a heavy book on top of the NEC CDR-602. I couldn't hear a difference. It helps that it is built solidly, and it has rubber "feet" already.

It does not vibrate much anyways.

I wouldn't worry about it, Bangpod. You can look into isolation equipment when you run out of things to upgrade. Heheh.

The general consensus here is that isolation equipment is not necessary for headphone equipment. Maybe sources, but that's pushing it.

I personally don't like using cones, because it's just asking to gouge something if I'm not careful. Plus a lot of people use three to reduce the contact points, but it makes it more unstable, and I'd rather not have my headphone gear take a tumble if I'm not carful.

(BTW, your Muse 2 DAC has three tall rubber feet. I guess to increase isolation, it's really stable, because they grip quite well)

-Ed
 
Jan 29, 2004 at 11:22 PM Post #3 of 9
Yes they make a difference, but not always for the good. AC1 here has dome some pretty extensive testing with various footings and such, so he would be a good source to PM about this.

Basically, ALL footers or isolation equipment pass on vibrations, it's just a matter of how they interact with the equipment which determines how they sound. Some pass lower frequencies, others higher ones. Experimentation with various devices, even things like using nothing more than wood, is the name of the game here.
 
Jan 31, 2004 at 5:24 AM Post #4 of 9
What if you need to isolate your CDP from the vibrations of speakers being too close and on the same surface?

What is it about glass shelves that audiophiles dislike?

What about cone feet and other devices claimed to "drain" internal vibration out of the player? How does that compare to vibration absorbers like Sorbothane feet? Are these mutually exclusive theories?

I would presume that cones would not act well on glass shelves. Am I way out in the nether regions with this assumption?
 
Jan 31, 2004 at 10:44 AM Post #6 of 9
Quote:

Originally posted by Edwood
I tried Herbie's Audio Lab Tenderfoot feet. They are a softer silicone rubber like substance.


Tenderfoots (Tenderfeet?) are about $9-10 US each for a half cubic-inch block, aren't they? If so, then I wonder if it would be cheaper to buy bulk silicon-rubber blocks from medical/industrial rubber suppliers and carve them into homemade Tenderfeet.

Just a thought.

D.
 
Jan 31, 2004 at 3:02 PM Post #7 of 9
There is a general consensus in high end audio (
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) that the most significant final audible improvements can be made in drawing down the audio hardware system noise floor. This allows the well reproduced "little sounds" and musical nuances to be heard and appreciated. These are the sounds lost in lower fi, and only through systematic isolation and damping are they revealed as the overall noise floor is reduced. Such isolation is basically either mechanical or electrical, and each type of "noise" are tackled in different ways, but first by identifying their sources. Your first steps are to have good audio hardware with no obvious electrical or mechanical problems of its own. Since isolation benefits are cummulative, there is no sense starting out on estoteric improvements if you haven't fixed a bad transformer hum first.

Spike feet for speakers isolate in two ways. First, they provide solidity and mechanical base to the speaker so that its energy is not lost or distorted by constantly working against a resiliant surface. Secondly, they remove speaker cabinet vibrations from affecting other system components by draining the vibrations into the solid structural flooring. Both functions, obviously, rely upon the availability of solid structural flooring to be coupled with. My #1 system is located on a poured concrete slab, and the effect of spike isolating the speakers was quite dramatic. Not only was their lower frequency response tightened up considerably, but overall audio electronics performance benefited from in large part eliminating the speakers' variable vibration.

Speaker racks, such as the Sanus Audio racks, extend isolation of vibration to your electronics and other hardware. My spike mounted Sanus five shelf was 80# out of the carton, received 60# of graphited #5 steel shot in its vertical tubular members (so as to resemble a big deadfall hammer), and is capped with a 40# marble slab under my Rega Planar 25. Did I mention that weight aids in damping mechanical vibrations and therefore isolation? Each of the Sanus's shelves is point suspended on 4 steel/elastomer/plexiglass isolating shock absorbers. The entire Sanus rack is then spike coupled to the aforementioned concrete slab. Between shelves, I have tried to combine "noise sources" that are used independently. CD players with their high frequency noise producing clocks and DACS, and components with motors are isolated on different shelves. This serves to provide mechanical isolation by both space and avoiding mechnaical contact between the offending components. Your results with less solid flooring structure will be less impressive; this is yet another effect of the room on the sound system.

As has been suggested, depending on the component and the vibration frequency to be isolated, different component aftermarket "feet" have specific applications. In my #1 system specifically, sorbothane "Little Feet" were selected to isolate the Arcam FMJ 23T, and they do their job well. Owners of other quality CDPs are advised to search the review and tweak literature for the aftermarket isolating feet others have found to work well with particular CDPs, noting, however, how the reviewers other system situations may differ from yours.

Isolation and elimination of electrical effects can also provide significant improvement. While some electrical isolation is provided by the space from the grouping of components on rack shelves discussed above, additional electrical isolation was provided in my #1 system's case by several other steps. First, all mechanical electrical connections from the circuit breaker through the speakers were chemically cleaned and conditioned with appropriate CAIG products before being re-assembled with air tight connections with a cryogenically treated hospital grade isolated ground duplex outlet for audio system power only. Secondly, room lighting was re-connected to another household circuit to isolate rf noise from rheostats, ballasts, and the like. Third, I employ a JR-designed power conditioner/surge protector (which I built) to provide filtered electricity to my source components. Fourth, I utilize well designed, moderately priced, and well constructed power cords and interconnects (balanced, where possible) to further control and protect the electrical signals. I like LAT International's best interconnects, although I'm already on record as liking a hybred copper/silver conductor.

Isolation of mechanical and electrical interferences with an audio system is an ongoing process. Not only are some isolation elements of a type whose performance deteriorates over time in the environment and which therefore have to be periodically checked and maintained, but system changes, knowledge, and innovation provide constant demands for isolation improvement. It's a good thing I like this stuff, because otherwise it could drive me crazy. Not the least of this is the volume of product and opinion in the area of isolation. The end user is going to have to consider and analyze some pretty wild claims. I have elected to pursue to 90% to 95% solution, to stick as much as I can to the basics, to have goals and be satisfied with results.

My practical standard for the success of these efforts? That's easy; when SWMBO comes charging in, hotly accusing me of buying all new hardware because she can hear the audible improvements of my tweaks three rooms away, then I've been successful.
biggrin.gif
 
Feb 1, 2004 at 4:59 AM Post #8 of 9
Quote:

Originally posted by Demolition
Tenderfoots (Tenderfeet?) are about $9-10 US each for a half cubic-inch block, aren't they? If so, then I wonder if it would be cheaper to buy bulk silicon-rubber blocks from medical/industrial rubber suppliers and carve them into homemade Tenderfeet.

Just a thought.

D.


.....mmmmbrap.....

.....tenderfeet molded with ribbed texture on bottom for improved grip.....

.....silicone rubber >money.

.....mmmmmbrap.....

-Ed Bot
 
Mar 24, 2013 at 7:41 PM Post #9 of 9
I use tenderfeet under my DAC and 4 inch maple block.  I can vouch for them...they are an upgrade.  I use something different under my WA6 tube amp....it is custom.  I might use my custom mod under my DAC in the future but I am doing some critical listening to my tube amp right now and don't want to change anything.  Point being...I've tried a bunch of commercial solutions as feet and I would call tenderfeet my base line to compare anything else to.  They are my permanent solution under my 4 inch maple block.
 
 

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