Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif
lemme answer this questoin with personal experience
the last soundcard I had that produced noise, crackling, pops, distortion, had features that didn't work, etc and so on (the hell that maxvla describes) was the Creative AWE32 for ISA
here's a picture:
http://www.lauppert.ws/screen1/sc-awe32.jpg
the board supports stereo only output, and was released in something like 1994
I've experienced onboard sound more recently than that which produced some awful effects into very sensitive headphones at higher volumes, however actual discrete boards that I've gone through with no issues range from the Audiophile 2496 (M-Audio) to the Audigy 2 ZS Platinum (Creative) and most recently the X-Fi Prelude (Auzen/Creative)
prices on those range from $100 to $200 (the 2 ZS Platinum was the most expensive to purchase new, and also came with the most features, especially in its day)
honestly, most of the complaints about soundcards are snakeoil, and it seems all too common on this board to bash anything that happens inside the computer, blaming it on "massive RF interference", as I've said before, and will say again, you all do realize that if the interference was as bad as you claim it to be, there would be massive corruption of working data, everything from memory read errors to issues with 2D and 3D display would happen, and it'd be a miracle if the system could stay powered on for more than a few hours at a time (before the operating environment just degraded so severely it had to be re-instantiated)
cheap integrated stuff picks up on disk access for a pretty simple reason, integrated audio is part of the southbridge controller on probably 95% of mainboards (theres some exceptions that use either discrete codec boards or discrete add-in boards that shipped as a package deal), the southbridge is also the disk controller on probably 95% of mainboards as well
as far as random pops, clicks, etc, that can be caused by everything from heat, to PCI saturation, and its generally an easy fix
I'd like to see this "drivers rarely work" arguement stand its own ground, I really would, because the majority of external solutions rely on drivers from the same companies that produce the internal hardware, and USB streaming audio ("USB DACs that bypass everything") rely on in-built support found in Windows and Mac OS (meaning those drivers are provided by Microsoft and Apple)
yeah, some drivers in Windows Vista x64 have issues, but thats not related to being an internal soundcard, or a printer, or a graphics card, thats related to the new and unique challenges which Vista x64 presents programmers
under a mature platform, such as WindowsXP, Apple OS X, or more mainstream versions of Linux or BSD (such as PC-BSD, SuSE, or Solaris), audio can work just as well, as long as you have compatable hardware (for example Creative isn't really supported in a non-Windows environment, and Apogee isn't really supported in a non-Mac environment)
the only other source of noise and distortion is a crap power supply, which is what (i'm gonna say it) ALL retail computers have (its the truth, don't believe me? open up your Dell or HP or whatever, look at the PSU, look it up on google, probably $20 or less, even in a $1000+ computer), there are maybe 2 or 3 exceptions to this statement, the Apple towers (G5 PowerMac, Mac Pro Xeon, etc) and some of the highest end boutique boxes (like Alienware's ALX productline (we're talking about an MSRP $7000 US system just to get a decent quality PSU though))
now most custom builders will buy a better PSU, from a company that is either 100% specialized in nothing but power supplies (Seasonic, PC Power & Cooling, FSP/Sparkle Power, TTGI, etc) or builds power supplies in addition to a few other products, with good quality controls (Antec, Enermax, Thermaltake, OCZ Group, etc)
you'll be looking at up to $600 for a single PSU, now think about your high end audio components, and what upgrade PSUs for those cost, and contrast this to your $20 Dell gimmick, easy to see where a lot of bad rap for PC internals comes from, eh?
now the point behind all of this information, is simply that you can't blackbox away the rest of your comptuer's guts and blame the discrete card, if the issue is dirty power, that is the PSU's fault (and bad PSUs have been known to cause system instability, frequent crashes, bad uptime figures, and so on, to the point that most of the bad rap Windows XP has taken over the last few years is probably 30% true, and the rest of it is because of the ever cheapening quality of Dell and HP econo-boxes)
internal soundcards can be great, they aren't going to compete with a $50,000 hifi system, but the most expensive internal card I've seen targetted at consumers (recently) is around $250 (the HT Omega Claro Halo XT), and at $250, its a pretty amazing setup, as far as going with USB solely to avoid "all of the plague that is internal audio", its more or less a gamble, as there can be USB devices just as poorly designed and built
and as a final note, implementing optical out vs analog out on a soundcard is roughly the same amount of parts, its just the piece at the end that changes, the one thing to consider though, for the first half or so of this decade, manufacturers more or less skimped on the digital output quality, because it was a more or less unused feature (it wasn't until Dolby Digital Live and DTS Neo C came about that you could use nothing but digital output from your computer without issues)
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