[Hershon2000]

I just received this expensive (for me) older highly rated DAC & when I connect it from my CD player,
the volume goes down about 25% & I then have to boost the volume of my receiver amplifier to a level 25% more. Honestly, this DAC does not improve my sound at all. Does this decrease in volume level mean that there is something wrong with the DAC?

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hershon2000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just received this expensive (for me) older highly rated DAC & when I connect it from my CD player, the volume goes down about 25% & I then have to boost the volume of my receiver amplifier to a level 25% more. Honestly, this DAC does not improve my sound at all. Does this decrease in volume level mean that there is something wrong with the DAC?

Sure, 25% difference in volume is not that unusual. The CD standard output is supposed to be 2V, but many vary wildly on this figure; I've seen <1V to 10V depending on source.

As far as why there is no improvement, well it would help to know what components you are comparing and how they are set up (cables, etc).

 

[adhoc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've seen <1V to 10V depending on source.

!!!

 

[Hershon2000]

Thanks I feel a little better now though I'm not happy at all with this DAC & have learned my lesson in the future to go with a more well known DAC not that this one didn't receive superb reviews. I've noticed for my ears, most stereo products I've bought as well as modifications & new cables, etc., that got great reviews that cost me a bunch of money, the Musical Fidelity X-10 V3 Tube Buffer, the sole exception, seem to totally deaden my sound & take the life away from the music & make it sterile & barren. Maybe this is what some people want but not me. I notice this especially in Monster Cables when I go from the entrance brand of a series to the highest end of that series, the sound is stifled.

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hershon2000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks I feel a little better now though I'm not happy at all with this DAC & have learned my lesson in the future to go with a more well known DAC not that this one didn't receive superb reviews. I've noticed for my ears, most stereo products I've bought as well as modifications & new cables, etc., that got great reviews that cost me a bunch of money, the Musical Fidelity X-10 V3 Tube Buffer, the sole exception, seem to totally deaden my sound & take the life away from the music & make it sterile & barren. Maybe this is what some people want but not me. I notice this especially in Monster Cables when I go from the entrance brand of a series to the highest end of that series, the sound is stifled.

The lesson is to always audition gear before buying it.

Sound quality is subjective. What one person likes, another person wont. A component that sounds good in one setup may sound crap in another setup.

Reviews are mostly only useful for getting a feel of which components in your price range may be good.. from there you really have to audition audition audition to find the one that actually IS good, for you

 

[jandl100]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hershon2000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just received this expensive (for me) older highly rated DAC

What DAC are you talking about?

 

[Hershon2000]

Don't take this as being sarcastic, its not, but its really difficult to "audition" equipment in my area in LA, particularly DACs which aren't all over the place. I might be able to do this for some CD players but one higher end store won't allow returns- seriously & another place is a bit out of the way & I'm very uncomfortable there besides. The way some of these places have their stuff set up, isn't really conclusive to me to getting any kind of idea.
I basically use a forum such as this & a site like audiogon, to get ideas for items to then reserch further online by reading reviews, I particularly like audioreview.com & google for other reviews & to make an educated guess & basically buy something that if I don't like & can't return I know I can sell it back at worst a $100 loss which is just what I did on this DAC a few hours ago.

In the case of this DAC, which I don't want to specify the name now as I just sold it, now here, lets just say it retailed for $1500 10 years ago & had great reviews, I thought it totally sucked on my system. It lowered my volume I'm guess 25% (which I obviously could compensate for but wasn't expecting) & made the music sound dull, stiff & lifeless which is kind of what someone on this board predicted when I mentioned I bought it before it arrived. it. But this is one case where a bunch of independent reviews were so far different to my perception of it, all I can do is dismiss this as a fluke & go with more of a sure thing the next time. In this case I could have gotten a Musical Fidelity X-DAC V3 for $550 or so but I opted to go for a more obscure though popular brand thinking that I was better off spending $500 on something that sold for $1500 a decade ago. I was being too clever for myself. I sold it right away for a $100 loss, I'm sure if I tried to sell it for a higher price I eventually would have but it wasn't worth the hassle.

At this point, I'm going to probably buy/try out 4 used CD players: The Rega Apollo, Musical Fidelity's X-Ray & Pioneer's vintage PD-65 & keep the best of the bunch (or maybe 2) & sell the other 1 or 2 for a slight loss- at least I know there is a market for them. I'm tired of gambling on external DACs. Personally, I bought & sold back at a loss an Eastsound CD-5 based on the hype here & I thought it totally sucked but it was my fault for buying into the hype without doing further research. The three players I mentioned besides being popular here seem to have had very good independent reviews.

 

[jandl100]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hershon2000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif " lets just say it retailed for $1500 10 years ago & had great reviews, I thought it totally sucked on my system. It lowered my volume I'm guess 25% (which I obviously could compensate for but wasn't expecting) & made the music sound dull, stiff & lifeless At this point, I'm going to probably buy/try out 4 used CD players: The Rega Apollo, Musical Fidelity's X-Ray & Pioneer's vintage PD-65.

In all honesty, the 25% tweak to the volume control doesn't matter at all as long as you still have enough gain left to do the volume increase needed. It makes no difference to anything at all except where the volume control dial is set to.

But making the music sound dull, stiff & lifeless is obviously a bad thing. But, (but but but) one person's "dull and lifeless" is another person's "relaxed and musical". Really. I find it hugely surprising how much one person's taste can vary from anothers. I have the greatest respect for the opinions of some folks who genuinely think they get great sound out of their rigs, but sound quite horrible, in various ways, to me. There really is no right and wrong here, just personal taste.

You need to find something that you like. Easier said than done in your position, I appreciate that.

The kit you cite - Musical Fidelity, Rega, old Pioneer will all sound VERY different from each other. If you want to avoid "dull and lifeless" again, I'd stay away from the old Pioneer, but that's just my taste speaking. I get the feeling from your posts that you like a fairly upbeat, clean & fast sound. If so, then I suspect that we may have similar tastes. If so, I'd go for the MF. .... but don't sue me if you don't agree! To me MF gear sounds more interesting and exciting to listen to. I know that others will disagree.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Herson2000, maybe you just like the sound of 1-bit DACs. I have some experience with Pioneer's Pulsewave 1-bit DACs and I think I understand what you like about the sound. As a result of their designs, 1-bit DACs tend to have a lower noise floor than multi-bit DACs at the expense of decreased resolution, which most people see as an unfair trade--they'd rather hear everything. However, hearing everything is not always musical, especially if the music is not recorded, mixed, or mastered especially well.

I've found that 1-bit DACs, whether in Pioneer's CD players or in Sony's portable CD players, have an exciting, musical sound. They seem to draw out the important elements and hide the extra details. As I've gone through upgrades, I've come to the realization that this "musicality" is really just a coloration or veiling of the sound. The increased resolution of a newer, better DAC took me some getting-used-to, but now it's difficult (or impossible) to go back. When and if you upgrade, try giving the DAC a considerable amount of time in your system to let your ears adjust to the new sound.