[slug]

Hey all. I am pretty new to this whole headphone amp thing and just wanted to get my feet wet. I was lookin through ebay and found this amp and was just wondering if any of you could give me any insight on whether it is any good or not:

http://www.electric-avenues.com/audio4.html

 

[pirate]

I believe XIN compared the quality of that amp to his earlier versions and said for $55 (I think that's what he charged at the time), it was a good deal.

 

[hciman77]

I have one of the original models of this amp. I got it for $60 plus $4 shipping from Canada. I use it purely for amplifying my portable sources and PC soundcard out, in those contexts it does a perfectly good job and is relatively transparent adding only volume.

For home sources I use an old Marantz and am planning on getting a Headsave classic, but if you are not too critical I would say that Gary Ali's amp is very good little amp as long as you dont pay too much, if you want the final word in quality you might look elsewhere, remember this guy is costing his time (4+ hours) so he cannot be spending a huge amount on the components.

That said he is a really nice guy and does stand behind his stuff four square and I have never had any problem with the amp though it is an obviously cheap amp.

 

[slug]

I emailed him and his price is still $60+$4 shipping if I choose not to go the ebay route.

Since the Headsave mint-vibe and go-vibe is pretty much in the same price range, which would you go for?

 

[sbulack]

Ali's amp was reported to add only volume. The Vibe enhances bass response, detail discrimination, voice separation, and soundstage while retaining musical coherence in the sound. All of that said, I'd go for the Vibe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slug I emailed him and his price is still $60+$4 shipping if I choose not to go the ebay route. Since the Headsave mint-vibe and go-vibe is pretty much in the same price range, which would you go for?

 

[pirate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbulack Ali's amp was reported to add only volume. The Vibe enhances bass response, detail discrimination, voice separation, and soundstage while retaining musical coherence in the sound. All of that said, I'd go for the Vibe.

technically, isnt the most ideal headphone amplifier supposed to only add gain and leave no signature whatsoever ("metal wire with gain" i think i heard that somewhere)?

sound in = sound out (only louder)

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pirate technically, isnt the most ideal headphone amplifier supposed to only add gain and leave no signature whatsoever ("metal wire with gain" i think i heard that somewhere)? sound in = sound out (only louder)

Sort of... an amp has to drive headphones, so it's matter of driving them better than an unamped source, not just louder. That means not only providing the required voltage/current, but providing it *fast* and reliably (the quality of power delivered as well as the amp's power supply section is very important). Different headphones differ in the best output impedance for them at the jack, as well as how difficult it is to drive them well.

All that said, technically an amp is just supposed to amplify. But to amplify well is not that simple of a task, and it's dependent on numerous factors. All amps add a sonic signature, so one had better like whatever the sonic signature is.

As far as sbulack's statement:
Quote:

Ali's amp was reported to add only volume. The Vibe enhances bass response, detail discrimination, voice separation, and soundstage while retaining musical coherence in the sound. All of that said, I'd go for the Vibe.[

I'm not sure what is meant by "adding only volume." As a description of any amp, it's a major oversimplification and overlooks the particular characteristics of whatever opamp is used, the output impedance, the headphone's "preferred" impedance and sonic matching to whatever headphones are used with it, effects of the pot on stereo crosstalk, battery conservation features that may cause clipping at higher volumes, etc. In other words, IMO it really says nothing about the amp in question.

 

[sbulack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Sort of... an amp has to drive headphones, so it's matter of driving them better than an unamped source, not just louder. That means not only providing the required voltage/current, but providing it *fast* and reliably (the quality of power delivered as well as the amp's power supply section is very important). Different headphones differ in the best output impedance for them at the jack, as well as how difficult it is to drive them well. All that said, technically an amp is just supposed to amplify. But to amplify well is not that simple of a task, and it's dependent on numerous factors. All amps add a sonic signature, so one had better like whatever the sonic signature is. As far as sbulack's statement: I'm not sure what is meant by "adding only volume." As a description of any amp, it's a major oversimplification and overlooks the particular characteristics of whatever opamp is used, the output impedance, the headphone's "preferred" impedance and sonic matching to whatever headphones are used with it, effects of the pot on stereo crosstalk, battery conservation features that may cause clipping at higher volumes, etc. In other words, IMO it really says nothing about the amp in question.

There is a LOT of information in the recorded sound that we don't hear well because the electrical signal carrying that sound into our headphones does not have the best voltage/current properties to enable our headphones to reproduce the original sound well for our ears. So the bass sounds weak or flat, the soundstage is non-existent or unconvincing or incoherent, the tone of the sound is thin. What is needed is a device (an amp) to ensure that the voltage/current properties of the electrical signal carrying the sound into the headphones gives our headphones the voltage/current they need to properly reproduce the recorded sound for our ears. So, when it is said that an amp enhances bass response, treble extension or soundstage, if the amp is working properly, it is providing the current and voltage to the headphones to enable them to correctly and better reproduce these properties of the original recording. What I'm trying to do with my audio equipment is to reproduce as much of the thrill of a live performance as possible. A good audio recording has enough information on it to get me close enough that I can lock on to my live performance experiences. Without a really good amp to take the analog audio signal and drive the headphones well to reproduce what's on it, what I hear doesn't come close.

So, when I talk about the Vibe enhancing bass response, detail discrimination, voice separation and soundstage I mean that it provides the voltage and current to the headphones sufficient to enable them to reproduce these qualities of the recording better than without the Vibe (and I've done plenty of quick A/B's and extended listenings with and without to know). What I'm REALLY saying is: the Vibe gets me closer to the experience of the live performance on the recording. My ultimate point of reference for the comparison is the many and frequent live performances that I attend in Philadelphia where I live - the city of perpetual music.

 

[meat01]

An amplifier that only increases the volume, say it isn't so

Yes Pirate, the amp's only job is to amplify the incoming signal, nothing more, nothing less. The amp should not change the original signal in any way, otherwise it would be a processor of some sort.

I have not heard the vibe, but Norm does excellent work and is a great guy to deal with, so I doubt you can go wrong.

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hciman77 I I use it purely for amplifying my portable sources and PC soundcard out, in those contexts it does a perfectly good job and is relatively transparent adding only volume.

What I meant is that *I* could not perceive any change in the audio signature except that it was made louder, of course this is highly subjective and it could actually make changes to the signature as it amplified the signal that I am unable to discern.

In a sense it is pointless to talk about neutrality (dons flameproof underwear)
as any recording is mixed i.e engineers make a judgement of how the sound should be recorded , this judgement is then immortalised on tape and then by some form of magic I have never fully understood becomes encoded in the groove of an LP or the pits of a CD or whatever.

Then the source has to extract it all out again adding or taking away information according to the judgement of the team who designed it, then it passes down some thin wires as a tiny signal to another piece of kit that then does its own stuff to it (again according to the judgment of somebody else) and (in our context) sends it to a set of small transducers that convert it back into sound waves (yes you guessed) that we receive and process back into electrical signals using a set of tiny bones and a membrane and then we *interpret* it as good or bad according to our preferences. How in the name of all that is holy can we expect to get neutrailty - and dont even get me started on the RIAA curve

 

[null]

Hahaha! I picked up one of these things in December. Looks like he changed the design slightly (different knob, blue led -- i wasnt offered these options when I purchased it)

Anyway, I'm going to see whether I can stuff an OPA2132/4 or AD823 in there and mod the 3V battery supply into 9V to get a pseudo-CMOY clone.

 

[fewtch]

Edit -- never mind

 

[sbulack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slug I emailed him and his price is still $60+$4 shipping if I choose not to go the ebay route. Since the Headsave mint-vibe and go-vibe is pretty much in the same price range, which would you go for?

There are complexities to be considered in the recording, playback and amplification process. Given the simpler question: Does listening WITH the amp get the listener closer to the live performance on the recording than listening without the amp?

Hciman77 will have to answer that question for Ali's amp.

For the Vibe, I can say, "Yes." I was just at a live performance yesterday, and was reminded afresh of the qualities of the sound at one. Putting all of the technical reasons and audiophile decompositions and scores aside, listening to recordings without the Vibe and then with it, the Vibe undoubtedly presents a sound closer to that of the live performance that was captured on the recording than does the source without it.