Is there a amp that will be better suited to bass heavy music?
Jul 6, 2013 at 12:49 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 14

whendeathfails

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I was wondering this cause i saw alot of "this is good for" with no mention of electronic and other bass heavy genres, which is what ill primarily be listening to. Im lost on what i should get, and afraid that i might buy something that wont go well with my sony mdr-xb 500. Please help.
 
Jul 6, 2013 at 1:09 PM Post #2 of 14
As the Sony MDR-XB500s are already very bass heavy headphones, not sure why anyone would want more bass.
 
What source(s) are you plugging the MDR-XB500s into?
(the only sources really designed to drive the 25-Ohm XB500s are portable audio players & smartphones)
 
Jul 6, 2013 at 7:54 PM Post #5 of 14
Quote:
I'm not saying that i want more bass, just wondering what would be the best option. I'm usually listening to music from my laptop.

Chances are the laptop's headphone output jack has a high impedance and the XB500 are low impedance headphones.
This combo might cause the XB500 to have a bloated (crude?) bass.
Adding a headphone amplifier with a very low output impedance should give the XB500 are more quality bass.
Also chances are the laptop has a low cost DAC (Digital to Analog Converter), so an add-on DAC should help audio quality.
The Fiio E10 ($63) USB/DAC/Amp should improve the audio quality of the XB500s.
It would easily plug into the laptop's USB port.
 
Jul 6, 2013 at 8:29 PM Post #6 of 14
Quote:
Chances are the laptop's headphone output jack has a high impedance and the XB500 are low impedance headphones.
This combo might cause the XB500 to have a bloated (crude?) bass.
Adding a headphone amplifier with a very low output impedance should give the XB500 are more quality bass.
Also chances are the laptop has a low cost DAC (Digital to Analog Converter), so an add-on DAC should help audio quality.
The Fiio E10 ($63) USB/DAC/Amp should improve the audio quality of the XB500s.
It would easily plug into the laptop's USB port.


I second that.
 
Jul 6, 2013 at 8:55 PM Post #8 of 14
Quote:
What is impedance?

Very basically, impedance is resistance measured in Ohms (there is more to impedance, but not that I can explain well).
For good sound quality, it's recommended that the impedance of the headphone be at least 8-10 times the impedance of whatever jack the headphones are plugged into.
 
Jul 6, 2013 at 8:58 PM Post #9 of 14
Quote:
What is impedance?

The output impedance is a ratio, V out / A out. Headphone impedance is how resistive your headphones are to an electric load (kinda).  Your laptop probably has a 10 ohm output or something like that, which is high when paired with your headphones (<32 ohm ). You want your output impedance to be 1/8 or less of your headphones impedance. Thus, an external "soundcard" unit like the Fiio E10 with a low output impedance (<2 ohm) will be much better than your laptop built in output.  It should give you tighter bass response and less "Wub Wub Wub". Also, it has much more power, which can give you higher volume.
 
Jul 7, 2013 at 9:47 AM Post #10 of 14
Quote:
Im not saying that i want more bass, just wondering what would be the best option. Im usually listening to music from my laptop.

 
If you're using an amp with the kind of topology for the XB500's impedance and the output for its sensitivity, then that's already the best sort of amp for the XB500. You can have a bass heavy headphone but it might need voltage more, where the XB500 is likely to need current more at 40ohms.
 
Jul 7, 2013 at 2:54 PM Post #11 of 14
Quote:
As the Sony MDR-XB500s are already very bass heavy headphones, not sure why anyone would want more bass.

thats because youre not a basshead 
tongue_smile.gif

Quote:
Chances are the laptop's headphone output jack has a high impedance and the XB500 are low impedance headphones.
This combo might cause the XB500 to have a bloated (crude?) bass.
Adding a headphone amplifier with a very low output impedance should give the XB500 are more quality bass.
Also chances are the laptop has a low cost DAC (Digital to Analog Converter), so an add-on DAC should help audio quality.
The Fiio E10 ($63) USB/DAC/Amp should improve the audio quality of the XB500s.
It would easily plug into the laptop's USB port.

PurpleAngel is ofcourse right. as he usually is whenever i read his posts.
not that im any sort of authority on these matters, but i can definitely attest to the difference a good amp can make to the sound of ones headphones, and especially bass-heavy headphones (im not saying these are more effected by amps, im saying i can attest to them more, since these are the type i own).
 
ill just add that in my own, humble opinion, if it is more bass your after, invest in a good amp, a good dac if youve still got money, and then teach yourself how to use an eq. its really not very hard, and it certainly pays off.
 
oh and if i understood your OP right - your asking if theres a "type" of amp more suited for use with bass heavy headphones?
if so, then that depends on what you deem "suited"...
some may say that for a bass heavy, warm amp, youll want a coldish sounding amp to "even out" the sound. some will say that youll want an amp thats warm itself, so as to add to the whole bassy theme. others (me included) will say that one should strive for a neutral response amp, and take care of colouration with his cans, or with eq. all this talk of synergy is kinda superfluous if you ask me, i wouldnt worry about it if i were you. id decide on a budget, read alot of reviews, and then decide.
 
Jul 7, 2013 at 11:13 PM Post #12 of 14
Quote:
 
ill just add that in my own, humble opinion, if it is more bass your after, invest in a good amp...

 
True. It's not so much the coloration an amp should have, but even if your amp is technically a "wire with gain," if it's perfectly suited for driving the bass-heavy headphone (output impedance, output power-sensitivity, current or voltage), then that will at a minimum prevent distortion. Note also that bass frequencies require a couple of things for reproduction - surface area and excursion - and for these you need lots of power and good damping factor to control the sub (plus a strong cone that won't physically and audibly distort at high excursion). That's why subwoofers tend to be mostly 8" to 10", and in cars more than home systems, they go up to 15". Specialty subs for blasting Lil Jon or demolishing your house while watching the Battle of Minas Tirith (or convincing the neighbors there's a police chopper on top of your apartment while watching Erica Bana run around Mogadishu) are available at 18" from Kicker and Velodyne (heck, MTX has a 22"). Smaller subs made for a lot of bass tend to have really thick surrounds vs larger subs with comparable output, ergo larger magnets and spiders, ultimately more expensive (and soemtimes offset what some people think will allow for tight installs, particularly in SQ set-ups where bass up front is achieved through really crazy installs that put the subwoofer itself in front). Compare for example the specialty JL Audio and TangBand 6" subs vs 8" subs that cost less. I've been to an autosound show where, during the SPL contest, a Kia Pride (Ford Fiesta to those outside Asia) rolled up sporting two 12W0's and a 1,000w amp in separate ported chambers register at 126db, windshield and rear glass looking like the adhesive wouldn't hold them; next car was a Nissan 350Z that was also competing in the SQ category, with a JL 8W7 in a large sealed box with a 1,500 watt amp, the car was so solid (come on, it's a Z vs a Fiesta) we were all shocked when the meter said 138db. That's 12db more than the two 12's, for 500w more (plus a solid car). In either, or any case, a lot of people using this much on their subs typically use around 75w to 125w on their front speakers. Compare that to HT subs of the same price as the amp and sub, and you're probably only at 500w.
 
Now, putting the bass drivers at your ears might seem like it's drastically different, but not really - just because an amp isn't making 1,500watts for a sub doesn't mean you won't need an amp that has a lot of output and headroom, if at least among CD players with headphone drivers or even dedicated headphone amps. If anything, the main difference is it'll actually be more demanding, because instead of a sub playing 150hz (or lower) and below, you have relatively large fullrange drivers. Considered at scale, these can be on the really large side (like the XB1000), and when excursion happens, it has to reproduce the midrange while pumping full tilt. An amp with the amount and the kind of driving power such a headphone needs will not only prevent distortion, but can also allow for more headroom if you EQ to add more bass (that way you don't pump up the volume and have the midrange going up with the bass when you want to have bass rattling your jaw (the lyrics you're listening to, if any, are probably, mostly, YEEEEAAAHH!'s, Cadillacs, and grillz anyway).
 
What many might get confused with is how much output you can actually get from, say, a dual battery CMOY, especially with a sensitive enough bass headphone, before your ears bleed. Because unlike cars and HT set-ups, where you have several people like those people standing on the sidewalk waiting for a bus because they're too poor to buy an Escalade with rimmz and tricked out with Audiobahn, them headphonez being fullrange is offset by their position on your head, and the fact that if you try to share that bass with people standing at that bus stop with you means your headphones are probably measuring well over 100db at your earlobes. I've seen a guy using an LCD-2 with a Corda Stapdance, and you can see the earcups pumping and his cheeks vibrating from all that bass. Of course, I can't hear any of it from across the room, unlike the Escalade with an Audiobahn system in it that I can hear from two blocks away.
 
Jul 10, 2013 at 4:39 PM Post #13 of 14
Quote:
 
True. It's not so much the coloration an amp should have, but even if your amp is technically a "wire with gain," if it's perfectly suited for driving the bass-heavy headphone (output impedance, output power-sensitivity, current or voltage), then that will at a minimum prevent distortion. Note also that bass frequencies require a couple of things for reproduction - surface area and excursion - and for these you need lots of power and good damping factor to control the sub (plus a strong cone that won't physically and audibly distort at high excursion). That's why subwoofers tend to be mostly 8" to 10", and in cars more than home systems, they go up to 15". Specialty subs for blasting Lil Jon or demolishing your house while watching the Battle of Minas Tirith (or convincing the neighbors there's a police chopper on top of your apartment while watching Erica Bana run around Mogadishu) are available at 18" from Kicker and Velodyne (heck, MTX has a 22"). Smaller subs made for a lot of bass tend to have really thick surrounds vs larger subs with comparable output, ergo larger magnets and spiders, ultimately more expensive (and soemtimes offset what some people think will allow for tight installs, particularly in SQ set-ups where bass up front is achieved through really crazy installs that put the subwoofer itself in front). Compare for example the specialty JL Audio and TangBand 6" subs vs 8" subs that cost less. I've been to an autosound show where, during the SPL contest, a Kia Pride (Ford Fiesta to those outside Asia) rolled up sporting two 12W0's and a 1,000w amp in separate ported chambers register at 126db, windshield and rear glass looking like the adhesive wouldn't hold them; next car was a Nissan 350Z that was also competing in the SQ category, with a JL 8W7 in a large sealed box with a 1,500 watt amp, the car was so solid (come on, it's a Z vs a Fiesta) we were all shocked when the meter said 138db. That's 12db more than the two 12's, for 500w more (plus a solid car). In either, or any case, a lot of people using this much on their subs typically use around 75w to 125w on their front speakers. Compare that to HT subs of the same price as the amp and sub, and you're probably only at 500w.
 
Now, putting the bass drivers at your ears might seem like it's drastically different, but not really - just because an amp isn't making 1,500watts for a sub doesn't mean you won't need an amp that has a lot of output and headroom, if at least among CD players with headphone drivers or even dedicated headphone amps. If anything, the main difference is it'll actually be more demanding, because instead of a sub playing 150hz (or lower) and below, you have relatively large fullrange drivers. Considered at scale, these can be on the really large side (like the XB1000), and when excursion happens, it has to reproduce the midrange while pumping full tilt. An amp with the amount and the kind of driving power such a headphone needs will not only prevent distortion, but can also allow for more headroom if you EQ to add more bass (that way you don't pump up the volume and have the midrange going up with the bass when you want to have bass rattling your jaw (the lyrics you're listening to, if any, are probably, mostly, YEEEEAAAHH!'s, Cadillacs, and grillz anyway).
 
What many might get confused with is how much output you can actually get from, say, a dual battery CMOY, especially with a sensitive enough bass headphone, before your ears bleed. Because unlike cars and HT set-ups, where you have several people like those people standing on the sidewalk waiting for a bus because they're too poor to buy an Escalade with rimmz and tricked out with Audiobahn, them headphonez being fullrange is offset by their position on your head, and the fact that if you try to share that bass with people standing at that bus stop with you means your headphones are probably measuring well over 100db at your earlobes. I've seen a guy using an LCD-2 with a Corda Stapdance, and you can see the earcups pumping and his cheeks vibrating from all that bass. Of course, I can't hear any of it from across the room, unlike the Escalade with an Audiobahn system in it that I can hear from two blocks away.


im afraid most of the 1st paragraph went straight over my head = \
 
2nd paragraph: i think you just said what i did in a much more complete, correct and detailed way? a single driver thats meant to deliver the full range of frequencies, while pumping out way too much bass, is going to need some electricity. a good amp will provide for enough current, voltage, power - whatever. i admit, i dont know that much. im speaking more from experience. i own a pair of dt 770s 250 ohms, and a pair of m-100s. i boost about 15 dB of sub bass and about 4 dB of bass. between trying it out off my phone, an e11/cmoy, and an O2, theres really no comparison. using the O2 makes both sets sound better. the m-100 dont receive a very drastic improvement, but an improvement does occur (atleast to my ears). 
and the music i listen to rarely has any lyrics whatsoever actually... i listen (usually) to downtempo/ambient electronica and various forms of dub.
 
3rd paragraph: what? sharing with people on the bus stop? im sorry, i dont get what your saying? i actually have a dual battery cmoy, what about it? 100 dB? i think you have me confused with a stereotypical hiphop listener who uses a specific brand of headphones and likes disturbing people on public transport... half the reason i eq the sub bass up so much is because i listen at moderate levels and loose alot of the low end detail i like so much. and i dont own a car... i live in the town center (center of town?), my college is a short tram ride away, i have no need for one, and i probably couldnt afford to keep one anyway...
 
Jul 11, 2013 at 10:36 AM Post #14 of 14
Quote:
im afraid most of the 1st paragraph went straight over my head = \

 
It's about the more technical stuff about bass reproduction. Basically, all the other things people worry about driving headphones - amp output impedance, power output and distortion plus headphone impedance and sensitivity (you can look up the glossaries through the search function) are more essential. It's the headphone that has the bass, and ideally, not the amp, which just amplifies the input signal going into it (which isn't as simple as saying it's making it louder - there's a difference between a line out signal and a signal for feeding apreamped signal to a power amp, or powering a headphone or speaker). It's the same thing even with dedicated subwoofers - it's the subwoofer by its design as a driver and its enclosure that has the bass, not the amp (except, of course, tone controls; or simply increasing the gain on the sub amp to be louder relative to the main speakers).
 
The only reason why there are such things as dedicated subwoofer amps isn't because they produce the bass, they simply deal with the factors cited in the first sentence of the above paragraph to help the sub dish out more bass. A sub has to be large to produce lower frequencies, and preferably, efficient. Here's the problem - a larger driver for more surface area means less rigidity in the cone given the exact same materials. You can have, say, a paper cone that distorts sooner, or a tougher cone with a lower distortion, or a more complex material that bridges both sets of qualities. Also, you need the sub to move in and out - excursion - further to get louder, which also enhances that cone flex problem, and this time it may be the surround that distorts. With those in mind, would a 25w Class A amp even with a clean signal and good damping factor do better on a sub as a Class D amp with 500w output, with comparable if not better damping factor but more signal distortion (that's inaudible below, say, 500hz) and a smaller chassis due to a simpler circuit built around a chip amp and because of its efficiency does not need heatsinks as large as the Class A amp's? 
 
Quote:
 
2nd paragraph: i think you just said what i did in a much more complete, correct and detailed way?

 
Basically, yes.
 
Quote:
3rd paragraph: what? sharing with people on the bus stop? im sorry, i dont get what your saying? i actually have a dual battery cmoy, what about it? 100 dB?

 
I am exaggerating a bit to make a point, which is that although on technical terms bass needs more amp power, especially cleaner power, on fullrange drivers like headphones, it doesn't mean that the idea of using a 500w amplifier on a sub means you need to walk around with a 1.5w per channel headphone amp.
 
Quote:
i think you have me confused with a stereotypical hiphop listener who uses a specific brand of headphones and likes disturbing people on public transport...

 
Just because I made the above point using Ludacris and Lil Jon doesn't mean they're the only ones who do that. When I'm driving sleepy I blast techno in my car and I can hear my license plate rattling. And yeah, I do have Ludacris in my car, mostly for private-Communist-owned public transportation who swerve for passengers like wild animals while hog the three outer lanes (then swerve into the inner lanes).
 


 
 

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