[migs008]

Ever since my Denon D7000 arrived on saturday I really feel the need to put it on display somewhere. Maybe looking through head-fi everyday for 2 months had something to do with it sounding and looking awesome to me.

Head-fi = Viral marketing?

I'm too friggin worried about putting a damn scratch on it.

I feel like I have enemies everywhere everytime I take it out of it's box. Not to mention I also take care of the box itself.

Curses and blessings...

 

[markmaxx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jude /img/forum/go_quote.gif I haven't read the whole thread yet, so I'm only responding to the quoted post, which someone brought to my attention as something I might want to respond to.

Hi Jude, I'm hurt, you never responded when I threw a hissey fit about you reviewing the GS 1000 Prototype calling it the HE 90 Killer, the new king of headphones. And when the production version came out it sounded COMPLETELY different. (you lost a lot of credibility their, so many times in the New HD 800 thread it was said don;t get to excited guys remember Judes review of the GS 1000).

I also was up set, that your review was used on the Grado web site. And what you were reviewing was a pre production headphone that sounded totally different from the final version. Then Never once since, have you compared the 2 headphones (a OK now lets listen to the real thing) the production GS 1000 V Prototype.

I was really upset that Grado labs then ""gave you"" the pre production headphone for that GREAT over the top review!!

Or he gave the Pre production headphone to a good friend which makes you not as objective.

I have met you several times Wadia meet in Mi. Shortly in LA CanJam, (I work for the voice over guy) You are a great head-fier!! This still bugs me, you never addressed this which I believe is more blatant than releasing pricing on a sure headphone early. At least that was the truth. PS I heard the other set of GS 1000 Prototypes at a meet in NY a few years ago.

Why not bring the Pre production GS 1000 to a meet? To my ears they were Giant killers I loved them.. (They sounded very much like the New PS 1000), Now that I think of it,, WHY did you never review the new PS 1000?

I think that the gift of the Pre production GS 1000 was an over the top gift, for a over the top review. To prove my point I offered you $2000.00 for the prototype when I was having my hissey fit. Which means you got paid at least $1000.00 for the review. Because if their the same headphone you could of easily sold the prototypes to me and ordered a new pair and have $1000.00 left over.

And why is the banner of ad, (on the side) getting so fat?? 1/4 of my screen is ads now. Marketing machine.LOL.

Come on answer me this time......

 

[jude]

If I missed a post by you in a previous thread, I apologize, Mark. You don't have to remind me who you are, man, as I remember you well.

First of all, the GS1000 was not free, though I did not pay retail for it. And, yes, it is a pre-production model GS1000, technically.

Secondly, I never called it an HE90 killer, but I do consider it world class when properly paired. The HE90 (Orpheus) does remain my favorite headphone of all time. And the HD800 is my current favorite dynamic headphone. I prefer my GS1000 to the HP1 I owned for years, and it pairs very well with my Luxman P-1, and is still one of my reference headphones.

As for why I never reviewed the PS1000: I've never listened to one for an extended period of time (just whatever time I had with it in TTVJ's exhibit room at Can Jam LAX). I'd love to, however, and may some day, as I liked what I heard in that somewhat brief audition.

Regarding this quote: "I offered you $2000.00 for the prototype when I was having my hissey fit. Which means you got paid at least $1000.00 for the review. Because if their the same headphone you could of easily sold the prototypes to me and ordered a new pair and have $1000.00 left over." There are some headphones I have that, barring some ridiculous offer by the likes of Brin, Page, Gates, or a sheikh, I would never sell--HF1 #1, HF2 #1, an HD600 I picked up directly from Sennheiser in Ireland, and my GS1000--the latter being because it reminds me of the first National in New York and was obtained directly from John Grado.

I have not been paid for any of my reviews.

As for bringing it to a meet: I'd be happy to. Also, if you're ever visiting my area again, PM me, and you can drop by my office and listen to it with my P-1. And, no, I still won't sell it to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markmaxx /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Jude, I'm hurt, you never responded when I threw a hissey fit about you reviewing the GS 1000 Prototype calling it the HE 90 Killer, the new king of headphones. And when the production version came out it sounded COMPLETELY different. (you lost a lot of credibility their, so many times in the New HD 800 thread it was said don;t get to excited guys remember Judes review of the GS 1000). I also was up set, that your review was used on the Grado web site. And what you were reviewing was a pre production headphone that sounded totally different from the final version. Then Never once since, have you compared the 2 headphones (a OK now lets listen to the real thing) the production GS 1000 V Prototype. I was really upset that Grado labs then ""gave you"" the pre production headphone for that GREAT over the top review!! Or he gave the Pre production headphone to a good friend which makes you not as objective. I have met you several times Wadia meet in Mi. Shortly in LA CanJam, (I work for the voice over guy) You are a great head-fier!! This still bugs me, you never addressed this which I believe is more blatant than releasing pricing on a sure headphone early. At least that was the truth. PS I heard the other set of GS 1000 Prototypes at a meet in NY a few years ago. Why not bring the Pre production GS 1000 to a meet? To my ears they were Giant killers I loved them.. (They sounded very much like the New PS 1000), Now that I think of it,, WHY did you never review the new PS 1000? I think that the gift of the Pre production GS 1000 was an over the top gift, for a over the top review. To prove my point I offered you $2000.00 for the prototype when I was having my hissey fit. Which means you got paid at least $1000.00 for the review. Because if their the same headphone you could of easily sold the prototypes to me and ordered a new pair and have $1000.00 left over. And why is the banner of ad, (on the side) getting so fat?? 1/4 of my screen is ads now. Marketing machine.LOL. Come on answer me this time......

 

[tosehee]

Canon 1Ds used to cost $9000. At that price, people still insisted that it is the value product. Now, compare that to Canon 5D which costed 1/3 of the price or lower. In terms of IQ, there is hardly no difference. Well, not $6000 difference.

To some, extra pixel level difference is worth $6000 more. To others, it's not.

Where you stand and how comfortable with your money is all personal thing.

 

[tribestros]

Headphones are an individual thing from all of what you are comparing. Look, the difference between the Grado SR325 and the Grado RS1 is extremely minuscule. Yet, Grado finishes the RS1 with mahogany and markets them as a huge upgrade, nearly tripling the price. This is purely skilled marketing, plain and simple. Are you telling me the RS1 is three times as good as the 325? Of course not. There's a fair amount of difference.

All of this comparison with cameras, cars, etc. is purely subjective. There are large differences in cameras, lenses, etc. I own a Canon 30D and can see light-years difference in a picture taken on mine and an entry level Rebel with a lower megapixel rating. The average consumer can notice this. Also, you have more features on a camera that may suit to your usage.

I wouldn't even compare speakers either, because large scale speakers have vast differences even in each line...Klipsch's Icon line uses Triactix tweeters on one then a full 360 tweeter on another...

Now on a line like Senn's open-air...the features never really change but supposedly the sound changes. Go look at the HR graphs or just listen to them. What Sennheiser can get away with, because of the never-ending want to upgrade. Sennheiser can easily get away with adding $30 into a HD555 and turn around and double the price with some fancier looking aesthetics and everyone will buy it.

Headphones is really an odd niche, because these companies know audiophiles and our want to upgrade. I just can't justify, ever, spending $200 more for the Grado SR325 when the only difference is something extremely small on one sort of song. I'm frugal, maybe that's the reason, but I feel that these companies do a great job of taking advantage through marketing.

 

[tribestros]

Not to mention I could care less about fitting into a "status symbol" that would lead me to be respected on Head-Fi...I work at Best Buy, and respect the brand Bose. Two taboos, and I don't feel I need other people's acceptance over the fact that I spent my month's salary on a pair of headphones.

 

[estreeter]

We cant blame the marketers - who buys new headphones purely on the basis of marketing claims ? Then again, who buys a new piece of kit purely on the basis of recommendations from strangers on a internet forum ? I read the magazines, I read a lot of feedback here and elsewhere, but its all a crapshoot until I have the phones on my head and plugged into my music.

 

[tribestros]

People respect the opinions of someone who will spend a great deal of their time on a forum regarding headphones, especially if that's what they are asking about.

 

[rds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tribestros /img/forum/go_quote.gif Look, the difference between the Grado SR325 and the Grado RS1 is extremely minuscule.

I'm going to assume you haven't heard those two phones. Of all the phones in the rs and sr line those two are the most different. While the 325 is on the harsh and sibilant end of the grado spectrum, the rs1 is on the smooth and refined end.
For me the rs1 are absolutely worth the difference in cost. Not only do they sound fantastic, but they look really great too. Really great aesthetics in terms of materials used. More so than any other headphone I've used.

 

[haloxt]

All this talk about subjective worth, but has anyone considered the economic cost and profit of statement headphones vs. normal priced headphones? Before NSL was dropped by Ultrasone they planned on selling the Edition 8 at below $1000, that means Ultrasone must've been selling it to distributors at 50-60% of MSRP. Factor in the cost of parts and labor of such low demand headphones (they've only recently made 1000 total) and I think most headphone manufacturers are making super-high end headphones for our benefit, not just for making a profit, especially considering the fact that sometimes they end production what seems rather prematurely, either because they really want it to be limited edition or more likely it costs too much to make for such a small market (especially Sony headphones). But then again I'm not too sure what to make of the mahogany RS1 you mention, if someone can work out the profit margin on that please share. Another thing to consider is that money is constantly losing value and costs also constantly rising, and if companies raise the price over time especially when comparing headphones ten years ago to now, it may simply be reflecting these things. I for one hope headphone companies keep making expensive statement headphones, it gives them a good excuse to do more R&D and the technology they develop eventually trickle-down to their cheaper headphones.

 

[Zanth]

Grado has not raised their prices on any of their phones. New ones have higher prices (GS-1000 and PS-1000) but the older models, even including the upgraded i series have the same pricing as they did on their release days way back when.

 

[odigg]

I think there is plenty of marketing and price based "Best Sound Ever, Totally Worth It" in headphone land.

Ask this same question on a forum where most members support blind testing. You might find some interesting answers

 

[InFn-0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tribestros /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not to mention I could care less about fitting into a "status symbol" that would lead me to be respected on Head-Fi...I work at Best Buy, and respect the brand Bose. Two taboos, and I don't feel I need other people's acceptance over the fact that I spent my month's salary on a pair of headphones.

Okay, i am having second thoughts about this thread now, are you kidding us by any chance? You are saying Sennheiser is ripping it's customers off and then saying you have a lot of respect for the brand Bose? Also, in audio equipment, law of diminishing returns applies extensively; who doesn't know that?

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by InFn-0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay, i am having second thoughts about this thread now, are you kidding us by any chance? You are saying Sennheiser is ripping it's customers off and then saying you have a lot of respect for the brand Bose? Also, in audio equipment, law of diminishing returns applies extensively; who doesn't know that?

And to me, this law of diminishing returns has two components:

- the amount of time and effort put into designing a headphone that in the minds of most listeners, sounds better than the one before.

- the cost of the technology and materials used to make these high end headphones.

Additionally, there's that problem of economy of scale in that a contributor to the high price is that there aren't that many buyers. 'Haloxt' alluded to this point.

 

[tribestros]

Quote:

Originally Posted by InFn-0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay, i am having second thoughts about this thread now, are you kidding us by any chance? You are saying Sennheiser is ripping it's customers off and then saying you have a lot of respect for the brand Bose? Also, in audio equipment, law of diminishing returns applies extensively; who doesn't know that?

First off, I say that all "upper-line" headphone companies rip customers off by charging $300 more for $15 upgrades. I stated in the beginning why I respect Bose-their products are expensive, but you don't pay triple for a "different driver" or "mahogany crafted". Bose has 3 TriPort headphones depending on your preference in style- in ear, on ear, over ear...then they sell the NC QuietComfort also depending on your preference, over ear or on ear.

There isn't a TriPort SE or TriPort 800. There are just the TriPorts. Try checking your statements before you attack my logic, next time, thanks.