[NemoReborn]

I was messing auround with my Lyr2+ biforst when i suddently decided to try my dt990 600 ohm on my Yamaha Rx-460 Stereo amp  sitting on my desk powering my paradigm monitor 7 ....
 
ummm ...  listening ...  UMMM  again !?? restart track ...  hummm !?!!  30 % of the button turn and the sound is strong .. Hummm , lets compare the sound quality vs the Schiit ... plugg  , unplug .. Restart track .. and  unplug again ... restart .. try with different style of music ... PLug  unplug plug ....
 
Oh well ...   calling the GF so she can compare too .... she have good ear for music too ...   oh well  both conclusion ... SAME SOUND !!
 
 
Setup 1 :   Usb 2.0 connected Lyr2+ bifrost on the computer , listening at Tidal flac streaming ...
 
Setup 2 :  3.5mm to rca connected from the pc , strait to the yamaha into aux in ... Tidal Flac again ... 
 
 
 
 
!???  i dont understand ....

 

[kramer5150]

Some thoughts....
Its not the first time someone reports surprising results from a home receiver.  A headphone out jack is nothing more than an amplification (or attenuation) stage in the signal.  If the designer puts the emphasis into the design, it can be just as good sounding as anything.
 
Have you spent much time rolling tubes in the LYR2?.  Tube rolling can make a difference, not necessarily in the circuits ability to amplify mind you, but in the ability to color and flavor the sound... IMHO of course.
 
For me personally its always been the "flatter" sounding cans that do a better job illustrating the sonic differences of whats upstream.  Heavily colored cans like Grados, DT770/990, and HD650 tend to impose their own sonic/harmonic character onto the music.  Sometimes this nearly effectively negates the sonic attributes of everything between it and the source.  It used to really bother me in RS1/HD650 land... I spent HOW MUCH for all this?...  Then I got an old Austrian K701.  Its relative accuracy/flatness and its ability to really throw an image out there really puts a smile on my face and makes me realize it was all worth while.
 
The 600 ohm beyers have always been highly efficient phones.  So even though they are a whopping 600 ohms, it doesn't take much grunt to get them to move some air.  I am continually reminded how efficient my 300 ohm HD650 is compared to my power hungry K701 at 62ohms.  So just because its a high impedance, does not always equate to low efficiency.  So seemingly insufficient headphone circuits can do a good job powering high Z cans... like the DT990.
 
Source material matters too.  Highly dynamic recordings that are rich with natural reverberation are better suited at revealing sonic differences in the signal chain.

 

[NemoReborn]

I still feel like if i would have spend 800+ $ for nothing .. I cant..so far.. See the difference between the schiit stack and the yamaha stereo receiver 20 years old... I mean , i dont even use the bifrost dac with the yamaha...and the sound still same....

Ill do much more listening this week ends.. But so far i am shocked..

Ive been so much told by some vendor and people online that the headphone amp and dac is a must...

Dont get me wrong .. The schiit stack sound incredible .. But the 20 years old home amp keep up to it like if it was nothing... Makes me feel wierd..

About the tube rolling you mentionned , no i have not try it yet ... I created another tread asking question about it... No answer yet

 

[Rajikaru]

I still feel like if i would have spend 800+ $ for nothing .. I cant..so far.. See the difference between the schiit stack and the yamaha stereo receiver 20 years old... I mean , i dont even use the bifrost dac with the yamaha...and the sound still same....

Dont get me wrong .. The schiit stack sound incredible .. But the 20 years old home amp keep up to it like if it was nothing... Makes me feel wierd..
 

 
What were you expecting to hear? 

 
For 99+% of the people on this planet: Same song + same headphone = hear same thing. It's only logical.
 
Possibly 1% of the 99+% can tell you that as long as differences in power requirements, frequency response, THD, noise etc. are below audible threshold = hear same thing. It's only engineering and science.
 
The <1% will tell you that everything - amps, dacs, cables, amplifiers etc. sounds different. It's just a hobby (and marketing).
 
A matter of perspective. 

 

[NemoReborn]

   
What were you expecting to hear? 

 
For 99+% of the people on this planet: Same song + same headphone = hear same thing. It's only logical.
 
Possibly 1% of the 99+% can tell you that as long as differences in power requirements, frequency response, THD, noise etc. are below audible threshold = hear same thing. It's only engineering and science.
 
The <1% will tell you that everything - amps, dacs, cables, amplifiers etc. sounds different. It's just a hobby (and marketing).
 
A matter of perspective. 

 
What i was expecting !? i was expecting what people told me ...  2 diferent vendor  said '' do not use the dt990 on a regular amp or it will sound like crap  , these cans need headphone amp and a good dac cause the one on your pc is really bad '' ...
 
so at the shop i listened them with a good dac and woo amp and it sounded incredible ...  so i basicly trusted what they said and bought an Amp and Dac ...
 
after 2 days listening at the Beyer and the schiit ... i love the sound ...  BUT the fact is they sound EXACTLY the same on that old yamaha..
 
So again , WHAT I WAS EXPECTING??  I was Expecting bad sound from the regular amp . easy as that....

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I was messing auround with my Lyr2+ biforst when i suddently decided to try my dt990 600 ohm on my Yamaha Rx-460 Stereo amp  sitting on my desk powering my paradigm monitor 7 ....
 
ummm ...  listening ...  UMMM  again !?? restart track ...  hummm !?!!  30 % of the button turn and the sound is strong .. Hummm , lets compare the sound quality vs the Schiit ... plugg  , unplug .. Restart track .. and  unplug again ... restart .. try with different style of music ... PLug  unplug plug ....
 
Oh well ...   calling the GF so she can compare too .... she have good ear for music too ...   oh well  both conclusion ... SAME SOUND !!
 
 
Setup 1 :   Usb 2.0 connected Lyr2+ bifrost on the computer , listening at Tidal flac streaming ...
 
Setup 2 :  3.5mm to rca connected from the pc , strait to the yamaha into aux in ... Tidal Flac again ... 
 
 
 
 
!???  i dont understand ....

 

If the receiver can get the headphones loud enough to not get audible distortion then it will sound the same. Also even if the Lyr uses tubes it doesn't mean it will outright color the sound.

 

Then again, "audible" isn't a fixed level. You can get THD in a numerical percentage but it depends on what about the signal distorts. Easiest to hear (aside from when tubes are used to deliberately color the sound) is when it's in the bass - overexcursion (bass notes come with a "thwack!" sound; note it can happen with any amp as long as you go over the drivers' limits), or if it sounds too "slow" by perception (eg. da-da-da-dadadadada turns into DWAADWAADWAADWWAAWAWAWAAW at loud levels).

 

[kramer5150]

I still feel like if i would have spend 800+ $ for nothing .. I cant..so far.. See the difference between the schiit stack and the yamaha stereo receiver 20 years old... I mean , i dont even use the bifrost dac with the yamaha...and the sound still same....

Ill do much more listening this week ends.. But so far i am shocked..

Ive been so much told by some vendor and people online that the headphone amp and dac is a must...

Dont get me wrong .. The schiit stack sound incredible .. But the 20 years old home amp keep up to it like if it was nothing... Makes me feel wierd..

About the tube rolling you mentionned , no i have not try it yet ... I created another tread asking question about it... No answer yet

Just because its old, does not mean it sounds bad.  Conversely, just because its new, hyper-advertised or audio forum hyped does not mean it sounds good.... relative to your receiver you have there.  There are some dam fine sounding vintage receiver headphone circuits out there... especially when paired up with higher impedance phones.
 
Don't let it weird you out too much... we all hear things differently and we all have different preferences.  You just so happen to have found a simple setup that sounds good to you.  Just today I dusted off my Sony D335, and was comparing its headphone out to its toslink optical out feeding my DAC and amps.  No shocker for me... the Sony headphone circuit still to this day sounds really good (for what it is) with all my cans (K701, HD650 pictured).  Admittedly I could use a DAC upgrade, but I really do like the sound of my modded Entech.  It has an OPA2107 on the analog side, and thats a chip I really like the sound of.
 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Just to add, I had a Marantz CD60 before and while its built-in headphone amp absolutely sucked driving Grados, it was fantastic on the HD600. I liked it better than the Little Dot MkII - the tube amp had too much bass bloat made worse by worn out earpads. The CDP's headphone driver however was able to dish out solid, controlled bass that was very audible.

 

[guitargonaut]

I have a Woo Audio WA3 with upgraded tubes.  The amp sounds fantastic with my Beyer T90, Denon D5000, and Sennheise HD558 headphones.  I also have a Parasound HCA800ii hooked up to a Vinyl Flat Can Opener.  It is my opinion that the Parasound/Can Opener combo sounds more detailed and spacious than the WA3.
 
My point in mentioning this is that in spite of all the great reviews we may find on any given product, it isn't necessarily better than an older, less expensive, setup.