[OmidelF]

If you're listening to hip hop and pop I'd strongly recommend the hd800 would not be the best sound/option

Hifimans would be worth looking at. He560, he400i, he500.

The he560 is another headphone that does get better with better Amps. The soloist amps go very well with those and you can quite often get them in the classifieds here. There's the soloist and the soloist sl.

I always thought the hd800 and he560 were similar in quality but different in sound. The hd800 more analytical with large soundstage, the 560 has a good soundstage but great warmth and timbre with fantastic mids and draws me in so easily.

well i can't find hifman headphones in my country , so the best option i had after the hd800 was Beyerdynamic  t1 , i started a new topic for that if you help that would be great

 

[Tro95]

Ok, let me talk to you about budget-related stuff, because as a student I've tried the lot.
 
When it comes to running a headphone direct from your soundcard, I don't believe quality was the biggest issue. Yes, paired with a good amp & dac does sound better, but without them the headphone still sounds pretty damned good (enough to justify buying a nicer headphone). The main issue with running straight out of the soundcard, especially with something like the HD800s, is the volume. HD800s have an impedance of 300 ohm, which means they are very difficult to drive, and this ultimately means the full volume on your soundcard will be at low to medium listening levels and never higher.
 
There are several options to get a nicely-powered headphone on a budget. The FiiO X3 is a ~£150 digital audio player (sorry, I only know £s) that can act as a USB amp/dac, and can power my HD650s and HE-6s to decent listening levels. Providing you're not used to high-end amps & dacs, the quality will be perfectly good for what you want. The other alternative is to buy second-hand. A quick view of the trade forum shows HD800s going for $700-800, giving you $400 to splash on a second-hand Schiit Valhalla and Schiit Modi (awesome budget combo for HD600s/650s/800s).
 
In my honest opinion, I'd rather have a basic amplification setup and maximise the headphone, than go for a good 50/50 split. I do think you'll need at least something more than your soundcard, though.

 

[ubs28]

According to my ears, the HD800 is still the best headphone in the world after the HD 800 S up to $3000. It's better than the HE-1000 also according to my own ears which I find very veiled and mellow sounding. But I know some other people that disagree with me, so it's best to listen for yourself.
 
But I think you'll be safer with Hifimans high-end offerings since the amazing planar bass makes them more musical.

 

[OmidelF]

  Ok, let me talk to you about budget-related stuff, because as a student I've tried the lot.
 
When it comes to running a headphone direct from your soundcard, I don't believe quality was the biggest issue. Yes, paired with a good amp & dac does sound better, but without them the headphone still sounds pretty damned good (enough to justify buying a nicer headphone). The main issue with running straight out of the soundcard, especially with something like the HD800s, is the volume. HD800s have an impedance of 300 ohm, which means they are very difficult to drive, and this ultimately means the full volume on your soundcard will be at low to medium listening levels and never higher.
 
There are several options to get a nicely-powered headphone on a budget. The FiiO X3 is a ~£150 digital audio player (sorry, I only know £s) that can act as a USB amp/dac, and can power my HD650s and HE-6s to decent listening levels. Providing you're not used to high-end amps & dacs, the quality will be perfectly good for what you want. The other alternative is to buy second-hand. A quick view of the trade forum shows HD800s going for $700-800, giving you $400 to splash on a second-hand Schiit Valhalla and Schiit Modi (awesome budget combo for HD600s/650s/800s).
 
In my honest opinion, I'd rather have a basic amplification setup and maximise the headphone, than go for a good 50/50 split. I do think you'll need at least something more than your soundcard, though.

 
 
well i decided to get a Beyerdynamic A20 With Beyerdynamic t1  , i created another topic for that http://www.head-fi.org/t/795951/beyerdynamic-a20-with-beyerdynamic-t1-what-do-you-think-do-i-need-a-dac-too , if you answer that too it would be very helpful , also i should mention that hifman headphones are not available in my counter and also T1 is much more cheaper than HD800 where i live , which i think its a bit weird considering they are both the same price at amazon , also i heard that t1 is even better than hd800 

 

[Tro95]

   
 
well i decided to get a Beyerdynamic A20 With Beyerdynamic t1  , i created another topic for that http://www.head-fi.org/t/795951/beyerdynamic-a20-with-beyerdynamic-t1-what-do-you-think-do-i-need-a-dac-too , if you answer that too it would be very helpful , also i should mention that hifman headphones are not available in my counter and also T1 is much more cheaper than HD800 where i live , which i think its a bit weird considering they are both the same price at amazon , also i heard that t1 is even better than hd800 

What return options do you have in your country? Personally I'm not a fan of the Beyerdynamics, I don't find them enjoyable for listening to music. I think everyone here would advise you listen to a pair of headphones before you buy them, especially at the prices we're talking.

 

[OmidelF]

 
What return options do you have in your country? Personally I'm not a fan of the Beyerdynamics, I don't find them enjoyable for listening to music. I think everyone here would advise you listen to a pair of headphones before you buy them, especially at the prices we're talking.

well i haven't bought them yet , and yes i will go test them out soon if they allow me , but have you tested the t1 with a good amp ?
i heard and saw some reviews and they were very positive about it

 

[Tro95]

  well i haven't bought them yet , and yes i will go test them out soon if they allow me , but have you tested the t1 with a good amp ?

I've only heard the T1s twice, and I can only remember listening to them through a Woo WA7 (which didn't come close to the HD800s through a similar amp). I wouldn't know what to suggest for the T1s, but I'd suggest you try a pair of HD600s or HD650s as they are very loveable and a purchase for life.

 

[riverlethe]

The HE560 is far from being neutral it's upper ranges are a mess and I found the LCD-2 and HD650 and even the Nighthawk to be superior. There's nothing wrong with the HD800 for hip hop it's bass is well extended and has good clean lunch with low distortion. It's issues are the upper mids and treble it's enhanced to bring out subtle details. It can get a little painful on the ears.

I agree that the HD800's have great bass, but that narrow treble resonance makes them hard to listen and gives them a very thin sound sometimes. HD650 and LCD2 are both dark headphones. They're on the other side of neutral from the HD800's. What did you find to be a mess about the HE560's treble? I haven't seen any measurement or subjective review to support that.

 

[OmidelF]

so they( the shop that i'm going to buy the headphone)  told me that A20 can handle t1 without any problem and i would not notice a big difference if i use it with A2
do you guys agree ? 
also they told me that i don't need a DAC to use it and its good without it and won't make any difference if i use a DAC

 

[riverlethe]

  According to my ears, the HD800 is still the best headphone in the world after the HD 800 S up to $3000. It's better than the HE-1000 also according to my own ears which I find very veiled and mellow sounding. But I know some other people that disagree with me, so it's best to listen for yourself.
 
But I think you'll be safer with Hifimans high-end offerings since the amazing planar bass makes them more musical.

 
Have you heard the HD800S?  Did they get rid of that treble resonance?  I'm not sure it's worth another $500...

 

[riverlethe]

  Ok, let me talk to you about budget-related stuff, because as a student I've tried the lot.
 
When it comes to running a headphone direct from your soundcard, I don't believe quality was the biggest issue. Yes, paired with a good amp & dac does sound better, but without them the headphone still sounds pretty damned good (enough to justify buying a nicer headphone). The main issue with running straight out of the soundcard, especially with something like the HD800s, is the volume. HD800s have an impedance of 300 ohm, which means they are very difficult to drive, and this ultimately means the full volume on your soundcard will be at low to medium listening levels and never higher.
 
There are several options to get a nicely-powered headphone on a budget. The FiiO X3 is a ~£150 digital audio player (sorry, I only know £s) that can act as a USB amp/dac, and can power my HD650s and HE-6s to decent listening levels. Providing you're not used to high-end amps & dacs, the quality will be perfectly good for what you want. The other alternative is to buy second-hand. A quick view of the trade forum shows HD800s going for $700-800, giving you $400 to splash on a second-hand Schiit Valhalla and Schiit Modi (awesome budget combo for HD600s/650s/800s).
 
In my honest opinion, I'd rather have a basic amplification setup and maximise the headphone, than go for a good 50/50 split. I do think you'll need at least something more than your soundcard, though.

 
The Asus Xonar STX is more than capable of powering the HD800's.  Contrary to what many on here suggest, 300ohms is actually pretty easy to drive, though it won't run well off a 1V iPhone jack.  The planar magnetics take quite a bit more power, even though they have low impedance.

 

[riverlethe]

so they( the shop that i'm going to buy the headphone)  told me that A20 can handle t1 without any problem and i would not notice a big difference if i use it with A2
do you guys agree ? 
also they told me that i don't need a DAC to use it and its good without it and won't make any difference if i use a DAC

The A20 is more than enough for the T1, but if you do try planars, it may be a little weak. The high output impedance of the A20 will give the T1's more low end, but this is really just a primitive form of EQ. You can probably get something a lot cheaper with more output power. I'm going to be contrarian and say that a DAC probably won't make much difference.

 

[Konstantin690]

I agree that the HD800's have great bass, but that narrow treble resonance makes them hard to listen and gives them a very thin sound sometimes. HD650 and LCD2 are both dark headphones. They're on the other side of neutral from the HD800's. What did you find to be a mess about the HE560's treble? I haven't seen any measurement or subjective review to support that.

If you're referring to the 6.5kHz peak, there is a big difference between  a "resonance" and a frequency response peak.

 

[riverlethe]

If you're referring to the 6.5kHz peak, there is a big difference between  a "resonance" and a frequency response peak.

How so? A resonance will cause a frequency response peak.

 

[Konstantin690]

How so? A resonance will cause a frequency response peak.

You ultimately need a CSD plot to identify a resonance, but, a resonance will show up as sudden "shifts" in impedance, phase and distortion plots, the HD800 are ruler flat in that region.