[Mate77]

Hi guys, I need some advice from the experienced users here. I listen to jazz, classical music and electronica. Definitely not rock or what is generally understood by pop music.

I was thinking that I want a headphone for music with acoustic instruments, strings, vocals and one for electronic, synthetic music.

For the acoustic music a fairly detailed, analytical, neutral open back. I read that the DT880 or an electrostatic headphone would be good. For electronic music I would like something with very deep but controlled bass. A closed back (?) or a planar headphone (?). Any suggestions?

What do you think? Does this concept make sense?

My source would be a Benchmark DAC1.

 

[cycloverid]

An open back planar like the Sundara or HE400i 2020 seems like it would fit the bill nicely here depending on your budget. You want the open back soundstage for the jazz/classical and you'll need to EQ in a low shelf for the bass, which will be quite good for your bassy tracks. I'm using the Sundara currently and love it.

 

[Mate77]

and you'll need to EQ in a low shelf for the bass, which will be quite good for your bassy tracks.

The Sundara would be in the budget. Then just the Sundara an not two devices and no "division of labor"? How do you eq the bass?

 

[cycloverid]

I personally prefer to have one headphone that does most things well, and with EQ I think the Sundara manages this.

I'm currently using an 11db gain low shelf at 60hz with quality 0.65. To me this sounds right, but I really like solid bass impact. The rest of the frequency range is so good to my ear that I don't do any other EQ modifications atm.

 

[Mate77]

I looked at reviews of the Sundara on the Internet. It seems that there are considerable problems with quality control after all. What are the experiences here on the forum with the Sundara?
As a complement to the Sundara Im considering the ATH Technica ATH-R70x. Perhaps someone might comment on this combination?

 

[silent-circuit]

The R70X is an excellent headphone, but it's extremely neutral -- like, Sennheiser HD600/6XX neutral, which are the go-tos around here when someone's looking for reasonably priced neutral. Having heard both the HD6XX and R70X extensively (my best friend has the 6XX) I prefer the sound signature of the R70X and find it is more 'true neutral'. You should be able to find them in good condition used for around $250. I strongly recommend a balanced cable for the extra power if you have an amp with a balanced output, as they are not the easiest thing to drive.

 

[cycloverid]

I looked at reviews of the Sundara on the Internet. It seems that there are considerable problems with quality control after all. What are the experiences here on the forum with the Sundara?
As a complement to the Sundara Im considering the ATH Technica ATH-R70x. Perhaps someone might comment on this combination?

I don't think the Sundara and R70x would complement eachother well, but I haven't tried the r70x. Both would do a good job with your jazz and classical tracks, but the r70x would lack sub bass and the Sundara would be pretty good here with EQ. If you're really worried about the quality control on the Sundara and want two headphones, you could always pick up a closed back for your bassy songs instead of the Sundara. I think the Sundara makes a great all rounder, but would be pretty similar to the r70x except for better bass potential.

A closed back with the same driver will have better bass, so if you have a plan to get two headphones, this could be an option. I personally don't like switching headphones all the time, but many are fine with this idea.

 

[pepodenata]

Can someone clarify the power in Watts of the Bncmark DAC1 headphone output ?. Because I can't find it anywhere, and I think difficult-to-drive headphones are being recommended (maybe a little lightly). Thank you.

 

[cycloverid]

Can someone clarify the power in Watts of the Bncmark DAC1 headphone output ?. Because I can't find it anywhere, and I think difficult-to-drive headphones are being recommended (maybe a little lightly). Thank you.

Looks like the amplifier in the DAC1 is based on their HPA2, which the spec sheet on that is hard to parse, but looks like 1.5Wrms into 50 ohms? This should be fine.

 

[pepodenata]

'It seems' ... That is not very objective for someone who is looking for help here. In the Benchmark file DAC1 does not clarify anything; but in the case that it could be 1.5W at 50ohms, (with 0 ohms of output impedance), of course it would be completely insufficient for R70X with more than 400 ohms of impedance. It is one thing for them to sound, and quite another for the bass to come out, and the other frequencies not to sound thin and loud. Those headphones need a powerful amplifier, and not a DAC.

 

[cycloverid]

'It seems' ... That is not very objective for someone who is looking for help here. In the Benchmark file DAC1 does not clarify anything; but in the case that it could be 1.5W at 50ohms, (with 0 ohms of output impedance), of course it would be completely insufficient for R70X with more than 400 ohms of impedance. It is one thing for them to sound, and quite another for the bass to come out, and the other frequencies not to sound thin and loud. Those headphones need a powerful amplifier, and not a DAC.

Sometimes there isn't an expert to answer every question in here and I think I'm making any gaps in my knowledge obvious. This post seems like a good place to start with regards to this dac/amp:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how...ernal-headphone-amp-on-benchmark-dac1.576491/

 

[VNandor]

Looks like the amplifier in the DAC1 is based on their HPA2, which the spec sheet on that is hard to parse, but looks like 1.5Wrms into 50 ohms? This should be fine.

Stereophile says the headphone out's maximum output voltage is 8.7V RMS which is indeed about 1.5W into 50 ohms so that looks correct. The r70x is rated at 470ohm and 99dB/mW sensitivity.
8.7V into 470ohms is 160mW which would make the headphones 121dB SPL loud, still in RMS so the peak SPL could potentially be higher. Looking at the numbers this could be enough headroom but I don't have the DAC1 or the r70x either.

 

[pepodenata]

Stereophile says the headphone out's maximum output voltage is 8.7V RMS which is indeed about 1.5W into 50 ohms so that looks correct. The r70x is rated at 470ohm and 99dB/mW sensitivity.
8.7V into 470ohms is 160mW which would make the headphones 121dB SPL loud, still in RMS so the peak SPL could potentially be higher. Looking at the numbers this could be enough headroom but I don't have the DAC1 or the r70x either.

Assuming the voltage at the maximum volume pot is that ... That would certainly be with a lot of distortion added by clipping. An amplifier has to work comfortably around 12-13 hours on the clock. Not to mention that noise is by no means the most important thing in amplification. The control, the dynamics, the body of the music, the verve, the ability to bring out the clean deep bass and detailed and smooth highs without shrillness and thinness, the spaciousness of scene and separation ... etc. Noise has nothing to do with correct amplification.

 

[Mate77]

Can someone clarify the power in Watts of the Bncmark DAC1 headphone output ?. Because I can't find it anywhere, and I think difficult-to-drive headphones are being recommended (maybe a little lightly). Thank you.

Not really meaningful. No numbers given. In principle, however, I would be willing to buy a headphone amplifier.

 

[cycloverid]

Not really meaningful. No numbers given. In principle, however, I would be willing to buy a headphone amplifier.

By the numbers, this has a fairly powerful amplifier and I'm really not sure what @pepodenata is referring to. This has a lot of power and voltage and should drive any of these headphones with authority. I wouldn't plan on upgrading your amp until you try any of these headphones on it first personally, but maybe someone can correct me if any of my information is wrong.