[rjp]

I've come across a little recording that will bring out the worst in your setup.

It's a performance of Mahler's Second Symphony at the University of Chicago, and the acid test comes in the final minutes of the last movement, as the entire chorus kicks into overdrive. With one and only one exception, everything I've tried that's available to me has severe distortion in the sopranos, at about 30:02, 30:40, 31:08, and 31:39, if I turn the sound up to match what I directly heard in the live performance (FYI, I was a tenor in the chorus). If I lower the volume, the distortion goes away - but then the quiet parts are too quiet.

The only combination that has worked for me is: burn the FLAC file to a CD, pop it into an ancient Technics FF-1, and plug an even more ancient pair of Koss Pro-4AAA vise grips directly into the player. Anything else (speakers, computers, car stereo, etc.) is either too quiet or gets the distortion.

This performance has a great deal of dynamic range, to the point that I feel it pushes the limits of 44.1 kHz 16-bit audio. The only mics I saw were up near the ceiling, with the chorus split in the balcony boxes (all sections on both sides). Mandel Hall is a rather small venue as well.

This is the one and only recording that I have which gives me any trouble... anything else is handled beautifully by my MDR-NC60 phones, which are vastly more comfortable and have better bass.

 

[Golden Monkey]

I haven't heard your phones, but distortion like that would usually be the amp (or lack thereof). Something with huge dynamic swings and sustained full-freq craziness would tap out your power reserves pretty quickly. What you're describing is a lack of headroom - the caps just run out of juice and can't keep up with the power needed to drive everything cleanly. It could also be the phones muddying up the sound as well. They just don't have the ability to reproduce all the range and dynamics cleanly and distinctly, but that's just a guess. I'd say it's lack of amping - even a lot of higher end players with dedicated hp circuitry don't put a whole lot into the hp output, generally using cheaper opamps to keep costs manageable.

 

[Tiger27]

I have had similar problems with a few cds, most notably parts of Chili Peppers Californication. I tried every possible combination with my limited stable of equipment and they all had very annoying distortion-at any volume level. Others here have noticed the same problem with Californication. This leads me to believe, that in my case anyway, the problem is with the original cd. Your similar experience would also seem to indicate a problem with the recording. More experienced heads will undoubtedly have more to say about this.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I haven't heard your phones, but distortion like that would usually be the amp (or lack thereof). Something with huge dynamic swings and sustained full-freq craziness would tap out your power reserves pretty quickly. What you're describing is a lack of headroom - the caps just run out of juice and can't keep up with the power needed to drive everything cleanly. It could also be the phones muddying up the sound as well. They just don't have the ability to reproduce all the range and dynamics cleanly and distinctly, but that's just a guess. I'd say it's lack of amping - even a lot of higher end players with dedicated hp circuitry don't put a whole lot into the hp output, generally using cheaper opamps to keep costs manageable.

Taking everything in your description of this problem into account, it sounds like the recording itself was produced with too wide of a dynamic range for the "average" player to handle. Some extremely respectful, cautious and conservative utilization of a limiter might be advised in re-mastering.

 

[Ryzir]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger27 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have had similar problems with a few cds, most notably parts of Chili Peppers Californication. I tried every possible combination with my limited stable of equipment and they all had very annoying distortion-at any volume level. Others here have noticed the same problem with Califonication. This leads me to believe, that in my case anyway, the problem is with the original cd. Your similar experience would also seem to indicate a problem with the recording. More experienced heads will undoubtedly have more to say about this.

Yes, RHCP Californication CD was horribly mastered. If you can get your hands on a vinyl rip it sounds much much better.

Also to the OP this could very well be the problem. "Hot" recordings can sound okay on some set-ups and horrible on others.

Example of a bad recording next to a good one.

 

[rjp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif Taking everything in your description of this problem into account, it sounds like the recording itself was produced with too wide of a dynamic range for the "average" player to handle. Some extremely respectful, cautious and conservative utilization of a limiter might be advised in re-mastering.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Maybe I should fire up Audacity and see if I can tweak it a bit. It seems like there's a "perfect storm" of frequencies and dynamics at those few places - even though there are some instrumental portions that are at least as loud.

Still, when you take a 100+ member orchestra, add a 100+ member chorus, and put them together in a small venue, you're going to get major sound when the score says fff.

 

[Tiger27]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryzir /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, RHCP Californication CD was horribly mastered. If you can get your hands on a vinyl rip it sounds much much better. Also to the OP this could very well be the problem. "Hot" recordings can sound okay on some set-ups and horrible on others. Example of a bad recording next to a good one.

Exactly one of the Californication tracks that so distress me. I mean, you pay your 10 bucks or whatever for a cd or download and you expect there to be no noise. At least I do. It's very disappointing when you go to such lengths (proper codec, decent amp, good headphones, etc.) to make the music sound as best you can.

 

[rjp]

Well, as it turns out, the phones very much do have an influence. I just picked up some SR-60's, and the problems have gone away like magic. All of those massive choral peaks come through crystal clear with the Grados, whether listening to FLAC on the computer, or high-bitrate MP3 on the Sansa.

I'd say that this is a good recording to use as a stress test when auditioning any piece of stereo gear, especially for treble fidelity - but also for dynamic range.

 

[charley phogg]

deleted since problem fixed