[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodsound /img/forum/go_quote.gif Results ? No difference. The results especially noise floor and dynamic range were virtually identical.

Thanks for doing the test and posting about it.

In some cases (and I think it's going to depend on the card among other things), shielding does make a difference. I experienced it with an old laptop of mine but I didn't do any measurements.

 

[Tarkovsky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by arterius2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, thats esentially what an external USB soundcard is like. and USB is plug-and-playable, easily transportable. PCI is not. the only difference would be that the soundcard connected via PCI has greater bandwidth than USB, however that hasnt proved to be a problem.

No this is not the same as USB because USB uses CPU cycles. Firewire is closer as the card has it's own controller.

Even without being inside the box itself an extended PCI card would still be prone to the fluctuations in the power supply that DACs hate.

 

[alleyezon_d]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkovsky /img/forum/go_quote.gif No this is not the same as USB because USB uses CPU cycles. Firewire is closer as the card has it's own controller. Even without being inside the box itself an extended PCI card would still be prone to the fluctuations in the power supply that DACs hate.

You make a key point that external DAC's have their own dedicated power supply!

 

[goodsound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alleyezon_d /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not sure, and highly doubt, that that barrier you created constitutes as a shield... I own an external DAC and sometimes I run my headphones straight from my PC's soundcard. The difference is huge. Onboard is very noisy, even audible over quieter parts of games/music/videos. External is dead quiet. My onboard doesn't suck either, but it is an integrated soundcard (ALC889a) it sounds halfway decent compared to my MSB Link Dac, but the noisy makes it annoying and unbearable at times. I also avoid USB dac's because I'd rather use a connection like an SPDIF out that is not shared with other devices. (I use the coax connection)

then can you enlighten me to what constitutes a good shield ?

and why would you attribute the difference you heard to shielding ? and not anything else ? The difference could be "huge" for any number of reasons. Have you eliminated them and narrowed it down to shielding ??

 

[alleyezon_d]

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodsound /img/forum/go_quote.gif then can you enlighten me to what constitutes a good shield ? and why would you attribute the difference you heard to shielding ? and not anything else ? The difference could be "huge" for any number of reasons. Have you eliminated them and narrowed it down to shielding ??

I'm currently perceiving your tone as slightly aggressive, so I'll start by apologizing. In my post I did nothing to suggest that the difference was attributed to shielding, infact it's more along the lines of you attributing it to shielding since that was the test you tried to carry out.

All I suggested was that cardboard and duct tape might not be a "shield" for EMI and RFI since I do know that there are specific materials such as ERS paper and some special metals for magnetic shielding.

Once again I apologize if I greatly offended you by suggesting that your DIY shield was inadequate.

 

[goodsound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alleyezon_d /img/forum/go_quote.gif I own an external DAC and sometimes I run my headphones straight from my PC's soundcard. The difference is huge. Onboard is very noisy, even audible over quieter parts of games/music/videos. External is dead quiet. My onboard doesn't suck either, but it is an integrated soundcard (ALC889a) it sounds halfway decent compared to my MSB Link Dac, but the noisy makes it annoying and unbearable at times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alleyezon_d /img/forum/go_quote.gif In my post I did nothing to suggest that the difference was attributed to shielding

oh sorry I didn't realize all that was just a useless offtopic ramble with no relevance whatsoever to the subject on hand.
My apologies.

 

[alleyezon_d]

Well I was just sharing my experience with internal vs external. Not sure if I mentioned it, but I'm nowhere near an expert on the matter so I do not know why internal vs external for me is different, only that it is. I don't want to turn this thread into anything personal and detract from the original topic so I will stop here. Good luck with your quest for the answer as I'm sure many of us, including myself, will be very interested in it. I'm very sorry you had to take it personally and be so hostile.

 

[STSinNYC]

I do some audio editing work on mt PC, have the M-Audio 2496 PCI card. I work sometimes at very fine levels, I don't hear any background noise from the PC. As long as the PC and the card are properly grounded, seems to me that other than for supersensitive requirements, you'll be fine.

 

[Elephas]

I had an E-MU 1212m and currently use an RME HDSP 9632's digital outputs to feed a Chord DAC64.

The 1212m's analog outputs are mediocre and worse than most external DAC's I've tried, including inexpensive ones such as the Mhdt Lab Constantine.

The RME's analog outputs are much better but still not very good. It is worse than a Lavry DA10 or Benchmark DAC1.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif The 1212m's analog outputs are mediocre and worse than most external DAC's I've tried, including inexpensive ones such as the Mhdt Lab Constantine.

It's been suggested that a possible reason for this is the inclusion of cheap components on the 1212M's analog board. Upgrading the op-amps and capacitors may help. So, the problem might not be entirely attributable to the fact that the board is inside the computer, especially since the analog board is not directly connected to the motherboard.

 

[goodsound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, the problem might not be entirely attributable to the fact that the board is inside the computer

exactly my point.

 

[kipman725]

hmm well the level of RF/Mains interferance in a normal house is pretty bad anyway. I managed to use my body as an antena to pick up 60Hz mains hum once (holding scope probes) and have picked up am radio stations on amplifiers before. Many sounds cards are capable of insanly good signal to noise ratio's which shows that with good board design the interferance inside a computer can be overcome. I have however had cheap sound cards that pick up noise from things like the ps/2 port and the power supply.

 

[12Bass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodsound /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also find the idea of Echo "PCI" soundcards very interesting - like Gina3G and Layla3G. The soundcard is really external - you can't tell just by looking at it that it is not a usb or firewire soundcard. They have a kind of interface card that sits in the pci slot and then the external unit is interfaced with another cable. The external unit is where all the action is.

I'm not sure about the latest generation of Echo cards, but many of Echo's older PCI models actually use an analog signal cable to transfer audio in and out of the PCI card - all A/D and D/A is located inside the computer. That being the case, according to RMAA the ambient noise level on my Gina24 is still very low, probably lower than the noise produced by my NAD 3150 integrated amplifier. Another excellent card is the LynxTWO.

While it may be somewhat noisy inside a PC, a well-designed card will have no problem staying clean....

 

[pompon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12Bass /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not sure about the latest generation of Echo ....

For Gina 3D (short review) ... see: http://http://www.head-fi.org/forums...review-266816/

Nothing more to say ... it's that bad and the owner totally agree. He use for his digital piano (MIDI).

 

[Apocalypsee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12Bass /img/forum/go_quote.gif .... While it may be somewhat noisy inside a PC, a well-designed card will have no problem staying clean....

Agree on that. Even though not perfect, my Prodigy HD2 nearly eliminates all the hissing noises, as compared to onboard

But still nothing compared to outputting to external DAC. The noise floor is like night and day