[cooperpwc]

I don't agree with the comparison of the Solo with a netbook + DAC. My Pico Slim Solo stack is 1.7" thick, slips easily into any bag pocket and goes anywhere. Also show me the small portable DAC that reclocks and then outputs to a high power (2 Vrms) DAC of the quality of the Wolfsen DAC in the Solo, such that SQ is even comparable in such a small package. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist but which one? The Solo is expensive but it is a fine DAC with insanely low jitter creating fantastic imaging, and a lovely sound. Not to be so easily dismissed IMHO.
 
Then again, I don't buy into the iMod is a "lump of plastic and silicon" argument either. Aside from ignoring the metal, that pretty much dismisses the entire phenomonon of electronic miniaturisation which is what portable audio is all about. I am in outdoor environments that lend themselves to critical listening every day. It's also true that I own equipment - including isolating custom IEMs - that allows for such critical listening.
 
As for spending $1,000 on such a rig (more like $2,000 actually), do not spend it if you don't have it. I'm not buying a Ferrari but I won't dismiss its potential value to someone who can afford it. I just can't. 

 
My 2 cents - from experience, yes, I have heard the equipment that I am talking about - but still just 2 cents.

 

[SpudHarris]

Very nicely put cooperpwc, 100% agree. Only thing I can't comment on is the Pico slim as my rig has the ibasso P4 (love the tweakability).

 

[justanut]

The only reason why I'm actually holding back from getting a Solo now is:
 
1) The Solo is only the FIRST in the Algorhythm series... I want to see what they have lined up
2) There is no guarantee the Solo would work with newer iPods (it has been a long while since the Classic has been innovated on... about time? Dual-DAC iPods anyone?)
3) The Solo is a great start, but I'm pretty sure they can do better on their 2nd try... I would HATE to have to use it purely as a transport and have to add a DAC to the stack... AND be limited by the Solo's battery life in the entire combo...
 
NOooOOOOOOoooo I gotta learn my lesson from trying to be the first in everything... $600 Japan-imported PSP1, $800 Imported PS3 comes to mind...  >..<

 

[cooperpwc]

Justanut, I heart your arguments for waiting. I held back a year for the release of the ES5 and I sure am glad that I did. (Day 1 order, serial #011). On the other hand, there will always be something better down the road. So when to jump is one of those difficult personal decisions.

I only disagree with your second argument. The authentication chip system is established as are the USB IS2 protocols. There are better places to lose sleep than forward compatibility.

 

[b0wl1ng]

I have a 4th gen touch, a 5.5 gen 80gb imod and a 5.5 gen 80gb ipod, the touch is a great little gadget and quite good with an LOD , I have recently bought the 5.5 gen 80gb ipod off ebay, this was with a view to convert to another imod.
However the seller stated it was brand new with the plastic skin still on it and had never been used,this I took with a pinch of salt but went ahead with the purchase as i thought it would be in good condition.
when the ipod arrived it was indeed in pristine condition with all of the original packaging and indeed had never been used, I was very happy indeed !!, my sole intention as is yours was for music, lossless format .
Now to my main point, I love my imod , sonically it is excellent, but after having loaded all of my music onto the ipod I was totally blown away as to how close it came to the imod, the same set up was used, a balanced S/S amp and top quality headphones.
Now whether this was because this ipod had never been used other than when I set it up with an LOD line out  I have no idea, but I will not be turning it into an imod, I love the slightly softer and very musical ipod and equally the slightly more precise and crisp imod.
I know a lot of fuss has been made about the solo but I have no intention of buying one as the portable footprint and cost would be pointless in my opinion,I have a great home set-up anyway and the big plus the ipod/imod have over every other DAP out there is patently obvious in my opinion, the only DAP that surpasses the sonic qualities of the imod/ipod is the 801 Hifiman which as you say is unwieldy and has a poor interface, though is excellent sonically.

 

[justanut]

Justanut, I heart your arguments for waiting. I held back a year for the release of the ES5 and I sure am glad that I did. (Day 1 order, serial #011). On the other hand, there will always be something better down the road. So when to jump is one of those difficult personal decisions.

I only disagree with your second argument. The authentication chip system is established as are the USB IS2 protocols. There are better places to lose sleep than forward compatibility.

Well, when u have a high capacity drive in an iPod, u can't help but think that Thunderbolt might be the next logical upgrade for the iPod's I/O interface.. Would be a great marketing platform too, PCs would definitely be pressured to provide Thuderbolt support if nothing else, effectively killing off the USB 3...

 

[Ubijza]

Quote:

 
Ubizja: this was really helpful! So yeah again, this answers another important question: How much better is 4g RWA imod (can't do DIYmod myself) compared to 4g ipod touch? You are clearly saying that the imod is so much better it can't even compete? But would you mind commenting specifically where and how I would likely hear the difference? Would it be a totally different sound sig depending on the amp? Or would it just be clearer, more powerful, more articulation, more soundstage, etc? and *roughly* how noticeable are the differences? Also, would this cut down on the hissing I get from some of my lossless files?
 
 

 
From my research on the matter, I remember that 5-5.5G iMods sound better than 4G iMod, Vinnie Rossie of Red Wine Audio has stated that himself. 4G iPods are much easier to diyMod though. I have not heard the 4G Touch, but as I said in my previous post, all consumer players adhere to the same philosophy and loose out on clean path to line out, big capacitors and big (player size i mean) expensive portable amp. 
 
Amp is very important when one talks about iMod SQ- a cheap cmoy from ebay will hiss, have bloated boomy bass and splashy treble. Good amp (I have Meier Corda Move- about 200 uk pounds) has tight crispy bass, ZERO hiss and sparkly yet defined treble. The sound is just so much more "liquid", its hard to explain but I still remember the "Woaaah, baby! yes...YES" that I was mumbing while listening to my freshly soldered diymod for the first time.
 
Here are my initial feelings on the SQ, just a few sentences but lots of emotion (post #1937)
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/269604/the-apple-diymod-my-take-on-the-famous-imod-56k-killer-featuring-3g-4g-5g-and-nano-1g/1935#post_5747919
 
 

 

[cooperpwc]

Quote:

Well, when u have a high capacity drive in an iPod, u can't help but think that Thunderbolt might be the next logical upgrade for the iPod's I/O interface.. Would be a great marketing platform too, PCs would definitely be pressured to provide Thuderbolt support if nothing else, effectively killing off the USB 3...

Sure, on the anything is possible theory, anything is... possible! But you could be waiting on your deathbed with that kind of logic. Apple is just now introducing the authentication system for an increasing number of high end components and it is all about forward, not backward compatibilty. Classic, Touch, iPhone, now iPad...
 
I stand by me statement: There are better places to lose sleep than forward compatibility. And this might be the least controversial thing that I write on Head-Fi today.

 

[b0wl1ng]

Agreed, a good  amp is essential to get the best out of the imod or 5.5 gen ipod come to that, the first time i hooked up to the stepdance through my D5000 Denons,I could not wipe the grin off my face for hours.
A real defining experience, I was amazed that a sound so good could be achieved out of something so small, comparable to when I first wired in my Fact 8 speakers and they cost a helluva lot more money. 
 
Quote:

 
From my research on the matter, I remember that 5-5.5G iMods sound better than 4G iMod, Vinnie Rossie of Red Wine Audio has stated that himself. 4G iPods are much easier to diyMod though. I have not heard the 4G Touch, but as I said in my previous post, all consumer players adhere to the same philosophy and loose out on clean path to line out, big capacitors and big (player size i mean) expensive portable amp. 
 
Amp is very important when one talks about iMod SQ- a cheap cmoy from ebay will hiss, have bloated boomy bass and splashy treble. Good amp (I have Meier Corda Move- about 200 uk pounds) has tight crispy bass, ZERO hiss and sparkly yet defined treble. The sound is just so much more "liquid", its hard to explain but I still remember the "Woaaah, baby! yes...YES" that I was mumbing while listening to my freshly soldered diymod for the first time.
 
Here are my initial feelings on the SQ, just a few sentences but lots of emotion (post #1937)
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/269604/the-apple-diymod-my-take-on-the-famous-imod-56k-killer-featuring-3g-4g-5g-and-nano-1g/1935#post_5747919
 
 

 

 

[franklyshankly]

Wow, amazing feedback! I really really appreciate it ...
 
I'm gonna piss everyone off now, LOL ... I guess what I realized (I'm pretty new to all this, still learning) is that it seems the premium one pays for *portable* hi-fi is ... quite high! Since I do most of my listening on the go, naturally I started looking for portable sources that could outdo my plain ol ipod. I have found that my choices are roughly lumped into 2.5 categories:
 
    1) Bulky, massively expensive (for me!), awkward looking (all the cables for Solo, 801 is kinda goofy), but near top level sound. I'm talking about Solo, Fostex, Hifiman, Colorfly, and I'm sure there are others
    2) Ipod, Cowon, Sony, iRiver, Clip, etc, with either rockbox or EQ app or whatever form of frequency adjustment, but all *basically* the same because they lack external amp, dac, caps, etc. Amping these leads to basically the same level of improvement, not coming close to tier 1, but not terribly more impressive than unamped.
    2.5) Imod, s:flo2, hifiman-601, etc ... these are closer in sound quality to the 1st tier, but are so fraught with compromises that they cannot establish a tier of their own. Imod's compromise being price and portability compared to sflo2 and hm601.
 
This is just how I am perceiving the differences just based on the feedback I'm getting, I'm sure one could take issue with these categories, but this is how I came to a decision.
 
I decided to just start a desktop system using my iPod touch through a Pure i-20 (just bought it last night!), and I'm in the process of looking for a nice desktop amp. I can tell already that I'm going to get quite a bit more bang for my buck going this route, although I'l have to start listening at home more!
 
From what I can tell, the Pure i-20 does exactly what the Solo does (minus the high quality DAC and amp), basically bypassing the lower quality components of the iPod, allowing the sound to feed directly into amp. Desktop amps seem like WAY better deals than portable amps, but I'm still looking and I havent actually heard any, so maybe I'm wrong.
 
Anyways, just thought I'd post this since all yer feedback helped inform my decision. I'm SUPER excited because I think I can get a decent quality sounding set up for under $500. I've NEVER heard truly hifi ANYTHING, my current set up (ipod to se535) is the best I've ever heard, so I'm getting really psyched.
 
I'll go search the amp section but since you all seem knowledgeable as hell, I was wondering if anyone can recommend a great desktop amp for under $400?
 
Otherwise thanks for the great feedback!

 

[Permagrin]

edit for reading comprehension

Glad you're finding a setup you like though. The 535s, although far from cheap, should sound great straight out of an iPod if they're anything like the 530s.

So you have a DAC and just need an amp is that correct?

 

[franklyshankly]

LOL, edit? i have NO idea what you mean! jk ... point taken
 
The 535's do sound good out of ipod on some songs, but I guess I just want to have better and better sound? Do you think the 535's reach their limit with an ipod? They seem to hiss a lot, and sometimes just sound a *tad* weak, I have a feeling they could feel fuller, more powerful.
 
The i-20 does have its own DAC which is supposed to be much better than the ipod's, but I think ideally the set up would be i20--> DAC--> amp --> phones
 
I'm on a budget so I'll use the i20 DAC and a midrange amp for now, and maybe save up for a better DAC later. Although I'm sure by that point i'll want to upgrade to new headphones!

 

[Permagrin]

Hissing? Can you describe that a little? Like shrill highs or tinniness? Or like tape noise? Is it with low or high quality recordings?

I would use some well known reference tracks and if it still sounds lacking then you'll know.

 

[cooperpwc]

franklyshankly, for $99 I don't see how you can go very wrong. Please do report back on how it compares to the iPod line out.

 

[franklyshankly]

It's a steal! I have to thank cliffroyroycole for suggesting it to me very early on, and in the end I think it was really the perfect thing for me. I just had to get over the portability factor.
I've settled on the Matrix M-Stage amp because it's cheap and it seems to get pretty great reviews all around. I'll be sure to post impressions when I get everything set up.
 
Quote:

Do report back on how compares to the iPod line out.

How do you recommend doing this? not sure what you mean ... should i test ipod lod --> amp --> phones VS. i-20 --> amp --> phones ? that sounds right, yeah? to compare the Pure's ability to bypass the weaker components of the iPod that the LOD fails to bypass. I'll have to get an LOD that will work with the amp, right now I just have a FiiO mini LOD, not sure if it will fit in the Matrix amp.