Is FLAC worth it..?

[185717]

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Yeah.. I'm not quite sure how this was brought up.
 

 
I'm talking about how we obtain the digital rip =_=
 

 

[lee730]

Sharing is caring? lol
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I'm talking about how we obtain the digital rip =_=
 

 

 

[R-Audiohead]

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Through line out, ipods sound just as good as CD players. I've done line level matched comparisons and I can't discern any difference at all. The headphone out is the only part of an ipod that can sound funky.

I've also done line level matched comparison between AIFF and AAC, and there is a point where the bitrate of AAC is high enough that there's no more artifacting. I use AAC 256 VBR and it sounds identical to my CDs, even on complex classical music.

If your MP3s don't sound like your FLACs, it is probably your encoder's fault. Use 320 LAME and the differences will disappear.

Interesting post here, as I did pass a blind test for 256 kps v. FLAC (noticing the difference) but failed a blind 320kps v. FLAC-- and I am proud of my great hearing.
 
I do however, discern a pretty big difference (although I have not blind tested myself) running line out on the iPod v. a CD player.  I'm almost certain the DAC is the difference, as the converter in the iPod is likely far inferior to that of my CD unit.  If the Line Out you are running is a DIGITAL line out and the conversion to analog is being done external, then I understand why you hear no difference and just wasted my time with this post :/
 
I'll have more to contribute in this sense shortly, as I am in the process of getting a new home theater/stereo unit together and plan on using the the iPod as a digital source, running optical to a receiver with a pretty decent built in DAC.  Those of us who use the iPod as a digital source... that gives us reason to use lossless codec (even if it is apples "special" lossless codec that we're chained to as iPod users) even if we own the hardcopy CD
 
 

 

[R-Audiohead]

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I can't hear a difference with my modest setup (Cowon J3 -> Sennheiser HD25-1 II). I do, however, think FLAC is worth "it". Why? Just because of peace of mind. A proper 2TB harddisk costs 65 euro, given that a FLAC album is about 300 MB, one can put about 6666.66666666666 (

) albums on it. All these albums in mp3 would cost you about 600 GB of disk space (avaraging a 320 kbps mp3 album at 100 mb). A 650 GB harddisk cost about 56 euro. That's a 9 euro difference. The difference between Flac and Mp3 is 0.0013 euro's (0.0018 dollar) per album. Even though I can't hear any difference, to me, it's still worth it.

I really like this analysis.
 
Something to consider: How the external HDD is interfaced with the computer.  There are engineers who state that streaming digital audio information via USB is inferior to optical... and if you are streaming the data from an external HDD via USB and then through some sort of output (either optical, coax, or USB) you've lost any potential benefits from optical/coax.
 
Of course, if this is referring to internal HDDs then all of that is a moot point
 
Just for discussions sake!
 

 

[bigshot]

I do however, discern a pretty big difference (although I have not blind tested myself) running line out on the iPod v. a CD player.  I'm almost certain the DAC is the difference, as the converter in the iPod is likely far inferior to that of my CD unit.

No. The Wolfson DAC in the ipod classic is just as good. It's an excellent DAC. The difference you hear is probably line level differences. The ipod is a bit quieter than most CD players. Balance the line levels with a preamp and the difference goes away.

 

[R-Audiohead]

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No. The Wolfson DAC in the ipod classic is just as good. It's an excellent DAC. The difference you hear is probably line level differences. The ipod is a bit quieter than most CD players. Balance the line levels with a preamp and the difference goes away.

I'll get back to you when I get the new units, as I'll be running an external Burr-Browns DAC that's being fed via optical... I wouldn't be surprised if this outperforms the Wolfson iPod DAC

 

[bigshot]

I'll get back to you when I get the new units, as I'll be running an external Burr-Browns DAC that's being fed via optical... I wouldn't be surprised if this outperforms the Wolfson iPod DAC

Don't get me wrong. I have no doubt that you can find a DAC that measures better. I am talking about sounding better.

Here s the spec sheet for the DAC in my trusty 3G ipod...

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/codecs/WM8731/

You are going to be hard pressed to hear a difference between this DAC and ones that measure better. This DAC is as good as the ones in most standalone CD players.

 

[R-Audiohead]

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Don't get me wrong. I have no doubt that you can find a DAC that measures better. I am talking about sounding better.

Here s the spec sheet for the DAC in my trusty 3G ipod...

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/codecs/WM8731/

You are going to be hard pressed to hear a difference between this DAC and ones that measure better. This DAC is as good as the ones in most standalone CD players.

Hmm, fair enough.  This is good information to know as it might save me a few buck when building this system.  I will be running to some pretty high end Canton towers for stereo playback... so I feel like with gear at that level I may discern a difference?
 
I suppose the smartest thing for me to do would be to get the digital output transport for the iPod from a place that does return policies and check it out for myself.
 
Do you seem to think I will be hard pressed to notice a difference even if I am running some pretty high end external towers?

 

[bigshot]

I have an iPod line out dock in my main system and it sounds fantastic... exactly like my main Mac Mini server which is my main source. Sound quality is going to be more dependent on the file type you choose and the quality of the original recording than it is your ipod. The ipod is a fantastic source. It's doubtful that spending a lot of money on high end electronic components would make any audible difference at all. With a speaker system, you should focus on equalization and room acoustics rather than electronics. Getting the frequency response tamed is going to be your main challenge.
 
By the way, I don't think they make a digital out dock for iPods. Only line level output. Very simple and it works.

 

[codeninja]

I A/B'ed iPod Nano's line out and iStreamer with the same amp.  It didn't take much for me to hear the difference...  I tend to agree with bigshot's opinion in general, but I can't really agree with the claim that iPod's DAC is as good as it gets.  Related to this, FLAC will make more or less difference depending on the system that is played on.

 

[bigshot]

Line level matched. It takes two amps. The output of the ipod is just a little quieter than a cd player. Balance the levels and the difference disappears.

By the way, I haven't researched the DAC in the Nano, only the standard 3G/4G/Classic. You might want to do some googling and see which model DAC is in the Nano.

 

[khaos974]

Peace of mind really doesn't matter when you're filling a iphone or ipod with limited disk space, or when your itunes library is over 365 days worth of music. If you own the CD, there's no reason to use lossless.

Actually, I think there's a good reason to use lossless, especially when you own a physical CD, ripping takes time, so does tagging properly alubums upon albums, espicially with classical music where online databases are crap. And then you'd have an archive of your musical library.

If 10 years from now, we have a much better lossless format, we can do a straight conversion, no need to re-rip anything, the same if a new lossy format appears, a straight transcoding with no re-tagging. Nowadays, a 2TB drive cost a $100 or so, and if you have enough money to buy enough music to fill 2TB, well $100 or even $1000 for a NAS + online backup isn't a huge spending.

 

[Parall3l]

If lossless doesn't affect the ease of use or takes too much space, get it. Simple as that. 1000ish kbps vs 320 kbps, even if you can't hear the difference, the idea of listening to music at the maximum quality possible creates a placebo effect which makes you think that your music sounds better. 

 

[R-Audiohead]

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I have an iPod line out dock in my main system and it sounds fantastic... exactly like my main Mac Mini server which is my main source. Sound quality is going to be more dependent on the file type you choose and the quality of the original recording than it is your ipod. The ipod is a fantastic source. It's doubtful that spending a lot of money on high end electronic components would make any audible difference at all. With a speaker system, you should focus on equalization and room acoustics rather than electronics. Getting the frequency response tamed is going to be your main challenge.
 
By the way, I don't think they make a digital out dock for iPods. Only line level output. Very simple and it works.

 
 
Digital docks are definitely out there--
 
And yes, obviously the soundfile and room acoustics play a big role.  I was just discussing the hardware, for once you get the hardware in place then you can start eqing and whatnot to adjust to the room.
 
I've decided to build a small computer to act as a digital source, rather than shelling out cash for a digital iPod dock
 
 

 

[FatalSylence]

 
Digital docks are definitely out there--
 

Example: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-4372-wadia-itransport-170-silver.aspx