Is Airy sound and tight bass paradoxical?

[EGO DEATH]

Just a simple question to those who know.

One thing that I enjoy is a tight bass, if this means that the bass is smooth, with a nice soft "tsss" hiss but without the bass being shallow or thin, it needs to be deep. Treble, which makes it all sound smooth. And distinctive/well defined/separated mids and a forward, unmuffled/muted, clear, voice.

Is my beginners understanding accurate and is this combo possible?

Thanks

 

[castleofargh]

you're talking about things involving very different frequency ranges. check this page http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm
for even more goodness, I suggest to play around with music and a parametric EQ while looking at this, to get used to the different frequencies involved and confirm in practice what they change subjectively when you increase or decrease a given area.
it could also in the long run help you find the signature you enjoy most.

 

[theveterans]

IMO, a studio monitor bookshelf speaker like the one I use sounds like that.

 

[bigshot]

Generally electric bass doesn't have any treble component. The tone of bass is determined first by how the musician adjusts the output of his instrument. He can adjust the tone and decay of his sound to make it tight (little decay) or loose (lots of decay). This is baked into the mix, so different headphones aren't going to make much of a difference with it. The next most important factor to bass is balanced frequency response. If there are dips n the low end, especially the upper bass, it can mask the pluck sound of the bass, making it sound thick and indistinct. This is more serious in the upper bass, because our ears are more sensitive in that range. Lastly, the frequency extension matters... how low does the bass go? As you get to the bottom of the range, some headphones tend to roll off the bass. This is less of a problem than some people make it out to be, because not all music includes super low bass notes. However, if you listen to classical organ music or techno, it will make a difference, because they tend to have a lot of sub bass.

Some people ascribe to the "more is better" theory when it comes to bass, but that doesn't result in great sound. You can turn on the "Bass Boost" button on your player and get big fat bass sound, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. It's primarily intended to compensate for cheap crappy headphones with lousy response curves. When it comes to frequency balance, flat is best. There is an auditory principle called masking that says that a boost in one frequency can prevent the ears from hearing that frequency an octave or two above. So boosting the bass can obliterate the lower midrange.

Hope this helps!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Is Airy sound and tight bass paradoxical?

Just a simple question to those who know.

One thing that I enjoy is a tight bass, if this means that the bass is smooth, with a nice soft "tsss" hiss but without the bass being shallow or thin, it needs to be deep. Treble, which makes it all sound smooth. And distinctive/well defined/separated mids and a forward, unmuffled/muted, clear, voice.

Is my beginners understanding accurate and is this combo possible?

They're not paradoxical and you can still have both. Tight bass just means a smooth bass response curve that goes down deep into the bass and the amp doesn't distort nor clip driving that transducer; similarly, airy treble just means you have an extended but smooth treble response.

With headphones specifically however you have to consider one problem: these are single driver designs. Therefore you would need the driver to deliver a flat 20hz to 20,000hz, which isn't a reality just yet, as engineers juggle a balance between:

1. Wide response
2. A flat or at least smooth response curve
3. Sensitivity
4. Diaphragm needs to be light but tough
5. Size and weight
6. Cost

If anything, what can make it a choice between both (though not necessarily paradoxical) is how engineers choose a compromise based on the above criteria. Diaphragm size can also affect how deep the bass is (ie more surface area on larger drivers) or how smooth the treble is (smaller surface area, particularly on dynamic drivers, helps smoother response on high frequencies). This is a lot less of a problem on speakers when you can design one that uses different drivers designed for different frequency ranges, for example something like the Sonus Faber Stradivari Homage has two 10in woofers, one midwoofer, one midrange, and one tweeter on each cabinet; ditto the Aurum Cantus Grand Supreme which uses two 10in woofers, two 5in midrange drivers, and one ribbon tweeter for smoother treble response. You don't have these in headphones since cramming several drivers into an earcup can create more problems than they solve (at least until someone figures out that a concentric coax might be worth exploring), for one, you'll just end up with several smaller drivers that might have time alignment issues (unlike funneling the sound of several drivers into a bore as in IEMs), so they go for larger drivers like the 70mm in the HD800. Treble doesn't roll off, but then you end up with a treble peak that the HD650 and HD600 don't have.

 

[PETEBULL]

"Smooth" and "tight" are mutually exclusive. "Airy" sound generally implies lack of mid-and-upper bass and open/semi-open construction for more treble resolution. If you need heavy lows and airy highs, your best bet is dual driver system. No guarantee of mids though.

 

[ranfan]

I think it can be achieved, but in balance. It cannot be overly bassy, nor too airy. In my experience with multi-driver IEM, a neutral signature with a slight bump in the lower frequency and an extended treble can help give you that sound combination.

 

[bigshot]

Everyone seems to think of one batch of frequencies at a time. But it isn't easy to achieve a good balance without having a flat overall balance. If you have a flat curve from end to end, you'll have "tight", "airy"... "chocolate pudding sound".... whatever flowery description you want. Sound is frequencies and good sound is frequencies in the proper balance. The ones in the middle are usually the most important though, because our ears are more sensitive to the middle than they are the edges of hearing. Upper mids are very important because that's where we are most sensitive.

Interestingly enough, proper balance in the upper mids is also vital to treble response. A peak in the upper mids can wipe out the frequencies above and make the sound muffled because of a phenomenon called auditory masking. If your treble isn't "light and airy" like cool whip, a good place to check is the response in the upper midrange.

 

[PETEBULL]

A peak in the upper mids can wipe out the frequencies above and make the sound muffled because of a phenomenon called auditory masking.

True. Beware of spikes at 6-8 KHz. They brutally kill everything that's above.

 

[ranfan]

Yes. I think that's true about the masking effect.

 

[Strangelove424]

Interesting points. I don't think tight bass and airy sound are paradoxical at all. When I think of "airy" sounds I think of organs and cellos, the ambient noise of a concert hall, or the way the string section interacts with the concert hall. These are all at the extremes of the frequency spectrum. The deep base of an organ is airy, but in a thick way almost like it can suck the air from your chest. It resides well below the bass bump usually used to compliment electronically sourced music or hip hop. It's rarity is a symptom of marketing. On the other hand, the strings have an airiness too, but way on the other end of the spectrum, edging on the sensorineural cliff of old age so enjoy the best of it while you can. I love what well-covered frequency response does for that airiness, but it's bad mojo to get it by sucking out the mids. Balanced but extended frequency response is the only sane solution if the engineers can figure it out.