[rawhit]

Hi MacDEF,
even though firewire might be the better transfer mechanism usb still more widely available now (though that might change soon)

One of the reasons I want to buy a harddisk based player is to be able to transfer data between my office and home PC.
Installing a firewire card on the office PC not an option.
So the usb compatibility of Zen does have plus points for me.

cheers
RawHit

 

[Kubernetes]

Quote:

Installing a firewire card on the office PC not an option.

Ask your boss to get one for your office PC. $30 is a small business expense to allow your employees to work at home and transfer files back and forth. At my first legal job, my firm bought me a $100 ethernet pcmcia card just so I could do that--and when I left they didn't even ask for it back!

 

[Taphil]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF I also disagree strongly about the "Zen is best bang for the buck" people. Remember that this is personal preference. For me, the iPod's size, FAR superior interface, FireWire connectivity, and design are all MAJOR advantages that are worth money. So for me, the iPod is a better value -- which is why I bought it.

The Zen has firewire too, but it doesn't work on Macs.

A few ounces and the volume of a pack of gum isn't worth $250 for everyone. The iPod was worth it's price (I have a 20GB iPod) before the Zen came out, but not anymore.

 

[Ruahrc]

I am a pretty new owner of the 10GB Winpod. I absolutely love it. Was it expensive? Yeah. Too expensive? Maybe a little. Did I think I got/am getting my money's worth? Yes.

I can't really objectively comment on the sound quality, but the iPod plus my 35's are a great combo.

I have not seen/used the Zen, so I can't really compare the two-

however, things I like about the iPod:
1. ease of use (both using the player and interfacing with a PC via ephpod)
2. sleep timer function
3. big screen, easy to read
4. apple remote

About the remote- I suggest going for the 10GB model. The 5GB model is cheaper but it lacks the ipod case and the remote. If you go to apple.com and order a 5GB ipod and the case and the remote the total is about $380. Which means for $20 you can get double the capacity. The 20GB one is necessary only if you need the large space, but the 10GB model has a much better price/performance compared to the 5. And I depend on the apple remote- I can stick my iPod in my inside pocket out of harm's (and thieves') way and control my music from my pocket. It is great because it minimizes the chance that your ipod will get banged up/dropped/stolen if you use it on the go a lot.

Ruahrc

 

[punosion]

Quote:

Originally posted by rawhit Hi MacDEF, even though firewire might be the better transfer mechanism usb still more widely available now (though that might change soon) One of the reasons I want to buy a harddisk based player is to be able to transfer data between my office and home PC. Installing a firewire card on the office PC not an option. So the usb compatibility of Zen does have plus points for me. cheers RawHit

Yah, I'd say don't sacrifice your own money to buy an inferior toy, just so it can be compatible with work. That's kinda' silly...

 

[rawhit]

Kubernetes,
probabaly installing the firewire card one one more machine wont be a big deal but my main point here is that if possible I would definitely use the firewire but having USB compatibility does allow me to make my player work with more PCs (say a friends comp)

Punosion,
as I mentioned above compatibility with work is one of the 'nice to have' feature for me but main thing is being able to plug it into more PCs because of both options.

btw i think both are good products but they have different strengths and both will appeal to different people.

For ultraportability and ease of use I will go with the IPOD.
But for better compatibility and and value for money i think Zen would be my choice.
cheers
RawHit

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Taphil The Zen has firewire too, but it doesn't work on Macs.

How can it not work on Macs? If it has FireWire, and uses a standard hard drive, it will work. It may not have an iTunes driver yet, so it doesn't work as seamlessly as other MP3 players, but should still work via drag-and-drop.

(It's also lame that PC FireWire leaves out one of the best things about the FireWire standard -- power over the same connection as data.)

Quote:

A few ounces and the volume of a pack of gum isn't worth $250 for everyone.

As I stated before, it's not just the size and weight. The FAR superior interface, controls, and design are BIG pluses.

Quote:

The iPod was worth it's price (I have a 20GB iPod) before the Zen came out, but not anymore.

Like I said, to you. To some of us, being able to use the thing easily, and features like smart playlists are major advantages. I'll gladly pay more money for ease of use alone. Taken as a package, the iPod is still a "better value" to me. If you disagree, fine, but just don't try to speak for everyone and say that "the iPod isn't worth its price anymore" or it's "not a good value."

 

[Taphil]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF How can it not work on Macs? If it has FireWire, and uses a standard hard drive, it will work. It may not have an iTunes driver yet, so it doesn't work as seamlessly as other MP3 players, but should still work via drag-and-drop.

Like I said, it doesn't work on Macs. It has no Mac support at the moment. There aren't any drivers for it, and the last I heard Apple was less than helpful in helping Creative get Mac support for its players. You can't just plug it in and transfer files because it doesn't use a standard disk format (there are several reasons for that, just a different scheme than the iPod has), so drivers are necessary. The only choice Mac users have is the iPod. Just a point, not really a pro or con for either players.

Quote:

(It's also lame that PC FireWire leaves out one of the best things about the FireWire standard -- power over the same connection as data.)

Hmmm, that's weird. My cheapo firewire card and almost every other PCI firewire card has 6-pin ports that provide power.

Quote:

If you disagree, fine, but just don't try to speak for everyone and say that "the iPod isn't worth its price anymore" or it's "not a good value."

Since when was I speaking for everyone? Obviously it's my opinion

(I'm not trying to be hostile, but you're (1) putting words into my mouth, and (2) don't have the facts right.)

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Taphil Hmmm, that's weird. My cheapo firewire card and almost every other PCI firewire card has 6-pin ports that provide power.

The built-in ports that are appearing on many PCs are almost all four-pin (no power) ports. And of the FireWire PCI cards I've seen at the local computer stores (CompUSA, etc.), many of them don't have the two power pins. So many PC users aren't getting the full advantage of FireWire.

(BTW, will the Zen even recharge over FireWire if the PC supports it?)


Quote:

Since when was I speaking for everyone? Obviously it's my opinion (I'm not trying to be hostile, but you're (1) putting words into my mouth

I'm not putting words in your mouth; nor is it obvious that it's your opinion. When you write:

The iPod was worth it's price (I have a 20GB iPod) before the Zen came out, but not anymore.

It doesn't sound like you're saying "in my opinion." It sounds like you're making a pronouncement.

(Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine. It's hard enough for a lot of new members to tell which is which -- fact or opinion. Why not make it easier for them?)

 

[richpjr]

MacDEF,

You mention that Firewire is faster and superior than even USB2.0. I thought that the maximum transfer rate of USB2.0 was 480MBS and Firewire was 400MBS. Is there something else that makes firewire better?

Rich

 

[viper69]

for now at least.

 

[shafu]

I think the transfer rates are what are possible - not necessarily what you would see in real life. The main difference between firewire and UBS2 is how the devices relate to the computer.

Firewire is true peer to peer connection. I've read that this is better for having a firewire hard drive which may translate to faster real life speed. USB2 is master/slave connection.

In the end, I think the true speed is going to depend on the quality of the software driver. Firewire has been around longer so they may have better drivers.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by richpjr MacDEF, You mention that Firewire is faster and superior than even USB2.0. I thought that the maximum transfer rate of USB2.0 was 480MBS and Firewire was 400MBS. Is there something else that makes firewire better?

viper is incorrect. USB2.0 is only "faster" in theory. In practice, FireWire is still a MUCH faster interface. There are many reasons for this -- if you're really interested, do a search here on Head-Fi for my username and "USB2.0". But basically, USB2.0 tries to take USB1.1 -- an interface intended to be used for low-bandwidth devices -- and make it as fast as FireWire, but in the end it's limited by the underlying technology. FireWire, on the other hand, was designed from the beginning to be a high-bandwidth, independent controller/interface.

 

[richpjr]

I'd guess that is probably why Creative Labs used Firewire on the Zen instead of USB2.0.

Rich

 

[Taphil]

But on the Nomad Jukebox 2 they use USB2.0...