iPod line out vs "good" headphone out

[barbes]

For a large-capacity player with a great line-out you've got another option as well - refurbish a 5.5 gen ipod with a larger drive (120gb available now, maybe 240gb soon, from places like rapidrepair) and have it iModded. I have one in 120gb and can testify that it sounds incredible. Amp and special dock needed, of course.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif it is not a question of good headphone out versus bad one when an amp is brought into the equation. that dedicated amp will destroy any internal amp in any portable mp3 player, full stop. they all are rubbish compared even to the cheapest of dedicated headphone amps... complete and utter rubbish. you add a shuffle 2g to the pico and that combo would destroy the best of portables without an amp.

Some DAPs - particularly those with wolfson codecs - have higher SQ into a high-Z load than others. Such as when run directly into an amp.

The headphone jack on my Gigabeat F40 is rated at much lower power output than the headphone jack on my iRiver H120, but it's overall SQ - into an amp - is comparable to the iRiver's line-out.

The gigabeat F does have a real line-out on the dock connector. I have yet to discover if the coupling caps are in the DAP or in the dock. Since the F uses the same connector as a line of Toshiba PDAs, it should be easy to buy a $15 cable and turn it into an ipod-like LOD. The F dock connector also exposes the I2S signal, but i don't know of anyone who's tried to use it.

 

[shigzeo]

indeed. especially however for iem use, no player compares anything like a dedicated amp. iems just overload the small single caps (in most players) and an amp will just add separation of channels and bass resolution that is orders of magnatude better. big headphones: i have hardly any interest at all as i just dont' bother with them in a portable machine.

 

[Young Spade]

From what I have learned, is that a Line Out is always better than the headphone out; but yes, what a previous poster said was correct: A line out from a non iMod iPod is a glorified headphone out.
BUT, even though it is, it still sounds better than most HP outs on the other DAPs out there.

 

[Navyblue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young Spade /img/forum/go_quote.gif BUT, even though it is, it still sounds better than most HP outs on the other DAPs out there.

So what are those 'other' DAPs that you have compared and are worse than the line out on iPods?

 

[shigzeo]

a line out does not always mean anything. look at the x5: had more bass roll off than most daps.

finally: ipod has stigma around it: made by a consumer oriented company. the problem with thinking of apple as rubbish because they are consumer oriented is that all companies are. apple just don't push the marketing for audiophiles. if they did, trust me, the concensus on these forums would be completely different: even if they sounded exactly the same.

modern ipod except the shuffle are across the line probably the best performers: they do everything well, nothing perfect - but best in class channel separation for space, almost perfect bass roll off with iems across the line, very good hiss performance (shuffle excluded), gapless, support for 3 lossless formats.

then they are all metal: not plastic. for the environmentalist in me, as well as the person who does not like the feel of throwaway: that is a huge bonus. i love my sony but its lack of gapless, and slightly higher levels of hiss as well as not the best performance when coupled with big phones drives me back to ipod all the time.

 

[Navyblue]

For DAPs I have only compared my Sony and an iPod Nano 3G. Personally I don't think iPods are bad DAPs. If iPods are consumer products so are Walkmans. They sounded different but I can easily imagine if someone prefer the iPod to Sony. Compared to the iPods, the Sony has a larger sound stage but at the same time also sounded like there is some sort of surround effect being engaged. So in a way the iPod might sound more 'audiophile', but the Sony sounds more fun. The comments only apply for the headphone out as I don't have an iPod LOD. May be I should get a LOD just to hear how my wife's iPod LO sounds.

For now I am leaning towards the Classic (large capacity), Fuze (expandable memory), or one of the Sony (I kind of like it, but not that huge and relatively expensive).

 

[elfary]

I have now an Ipod Classic 120Gb and through the line out dock the sound it's gorgeous. I used to had a Zune 120 but i think that in spite of it's good sound it's the more unreliable piece of electronic ever.

Since i needed a huge capacity player (I love the freedom to choose when i'm on the go) i have ended up with an Ipod i'm very happy. Great capacity,accesories,great Line Out and very reliable (Unlike the damn Zune).

Just my 2 cents

 

[Navyblue]

After another session of reading that last for hours:

My head leans towards Fuze. No body seems to dislike it as far as sound quality goes, "I prefer xxx over fuze" type of comment seems virtually non existent, cheap, and capacity is large enough for me especially with a large micro SD or two.

My heart leans towards Classic. Well, may be it's the prettier piece of gadget.

 

[shigzeo]

well, some do prefer certain players to fuze: any company but you cannot say it here without getting crucified. true: fuze is a great player but it lacks power and a few necessaries unless you are just into size and cost ratio: probably it is the best on the market.

every player has its share of down and up categories: sansa lack for us die-hard industry wankers, AAC and for us audiophiles who don't only listen to rock and roll ablums but to classical, jazz, live, trance, audiobooks etc etc: lack of gapless hurts massively

if rockbox comes to it, must be an amazing player as that would supply the aac and gapless! only thing lacking is battery life and quality build.

 

[Navyblue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif only thing lacking is battery life and quality build.

I think those are what kept me from fully embracing it, and I have a thing for things made of metal.

though the Fuze is more pocket friendly especially when strapped to an amp, my favorite way of carrying DAP seems to be the front shirt pocket.

I don't have AAC files so it's not an issue for me. Gapless would be good to have, but I am fine without it, may be I'm weird but the gaps help me keep track of where I am in the album

.

 

[shigzeo]

cute! for me gapless is nearly as important as low or inaudible hiss. probably trade off for those two. yeah: if the fuze or clip were made of not only imperishable metal but was recyclable, i would be much happier. but it comes down to 15 hours or so battery (less in real world usage) and lack of aac and gapless: im hoping for good things from rockbox if it comes about: sounded doubtful last year.

 

[indydieselnut]

Does this mean Line Out Dock? If so, is the little white Apple dock a Line Out Dock, i.e. the 1/8" jack in the back of the dock is a line out? I'm just a little confused because I run an iPod in the showroom at work and the dock out is still volume controlled from the wheel.

So, if I'm running an iPod into a HeadAmp AE-2, will I get the best sound out of the HP jack (and where should the iPod volume be set?) or out of the back of the Apple dock? I'm not wanting to go the Wadia or iMod route.

Thanks everyone for helping this noob!!

John

 

[shigzeo]

volume control does not mean line out or not: has no meaning at all to line out or not. however the line out in the dock has its own chipset that has a cleaner out than at least old ipods: i have not compared it with new ipods but will soon do an rmaa on it to test how well it can drive an amp, then even headphones.

the ipod does not have any dedicated buttons for volume thus any attenuation to the signal is done to the source, not to the amp stage. if you can control from the ipod (wich many ipods you can - my touch does not work), it means only that the output is attenuated.

what happens here often is that line out (which is in real audiophile equipment quite different than typical dap line outs - dedicated often means it shares nothing of the same cirucuitry but there is no real estate in a dap nor the money to implement a true line out). the ipod has as real a line out as you can have in a small package.

the amp stage if there is a real amp stage in the line out is very clean: no hiss with my um2 or so little that i could not detect. it also was pretty bassless, probably a good indication that it is unamped or at least as separate from ipod output stage as can be. also, the dock is unconnected to any outputs caps in the same way as the headphone out.

no matter: it will sound good connected to an amp: even the headphone out will. the differences you will find between that line out, a passive dock and head out to amp will be very minimal --> most differences are placebo or forum induced!

 

[indydieselnut]

Perfect explanation for me...thank you!!

John