[chumley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thisp I could give a crap what people buy, yet if you're going to make up things, I'd say you're the one with the agenda. You can't measure a speaker or a headphone, but electronics can be properly measured - it's just a signal, it has no real physical characteristic. If you're saying they don't count at all, then fine - enjoy. Yet I'll take my own ABXing between the two + the analytical data to back them up over a random claim anyday.

The rolloff doesn't exist, thisp. 4G has a neutral and 'flat' response; 20-20k, nada rolloff... you're 'analytical data' conclusions are flawed for several reasons, not least of which is that you are searching for data to back up what you want to conclude, not evaluating (4G referenced) data neutral sets that have been out on the Internet months... iPodlounge refers to these, as do MANY other sites... there is lots of 'flex' in your conclusion, so much so that it is essentially a meaningless observation, if you stick to the graphs alone.

If graphs are your thing, here's a nice place to begin:

http://stereophile.com/digitalsource...34/index5.html

... bear in mind these measurements refer to the 3G; the LAST gen DAC from Wolfson, with measurably less low end than the 4G's new Wolfson DAC...

And thisp- at 44 years old, and making over $270k a year AFTER taxes, I have nothing to 'make up' except perhaps bedtime stories for my daughter...

You find other DAPs superior to the 4G iPod, that's cool. Let's just leave it at that, ok?

Peace.

 

[chumley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rapsabogsa nyahaha!

A great philosopher and the NHL share this credo:

"What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger."

That's what what'll happen to the iPod... It'll just get stronger...

 

[chumley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg heh, I just thought of something.....Chumley....when you were doing testing, did you ever look to see if "stereo seperation" was turned on or off? I just remembered that when Austonia first got his Karma he thought it sounded terrible which didn't seem to mesh with 99.9% of everyone else that tested it. After looking at his setting more carefully he found he had "stereo seperation" turned on, and that ended up making a world of difference. Just a thought.

I've tried it both ways; 'off' definitely improves things 100%. Nice call, Edvard. I respect the Karma's sound, it's just not to my taste. The fact that others find it to be the best DAP they can get is fine with me; there are scores of DAPs it crushes with ease.. the iPod's just not one of 'em...

There's a reason Austonia's two keeper DAPs are, I believe, the iPod and the Karma...

 

[UserNotFound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rapsabogsa nyahaha!

if i remember correctly, Gates showed what he said was an iriver h110 for $279 with color screen....????

 

[raynman]

Always intresting to read these kind of debates

Just my thoughts:

To the original poster - No matter how prepared you are in paper and all the research you do over the net, actually having the chance to play with and use the device on a daily basis is the only way to decide if the player is right for you. Good luck on your purchase and give us your thoughts once you used it for awhile.

To the ipod vs xxx DAP player debate - There will always be people who prefer one thing over the other in DAPs, and every OPINNION by a person is just that, an opinnion. There have been fruitless thread arguements over ipod vs. iriver vs. karma vs. (insert other DAPs) and their ease of use, sound quality, etc. and in the end the conclusion is always the same and evident. DAP choices will and forever will be subjective to each their own. "Different strokes for different folks". In reality, there is no one player better than the others but rather one's opinnion of a player is percieved to be better than the others. It's really as simple as that.

To chumley - Like you, I too have very strong opinnions about DAPs. It is very evident in what I have read that everyone in this thread is basically posting their own opinnions even though some may claim they are facts. However, no matter how great you disagree with one poster whether or not what their opinnion they are saying is true or bs, its important to remember that blatantly flaming a person for their own beliefs and idiocracies belongs in PM's and not in threads. I respect your apology in one of your posts in this thread but seeing more than one instance of the same snarkiness troubles me and has been recognized by more than one member already.

Honestly, how does this statement below make you look like to others and was the snarkiness really that necessary?

Quote:

And thisp- at 44 years old, and making over $270k a year AFTER taxes, I have nothing to 'make up' except perhaps bedtime stories for my daughter...

You seem to have a habbit of putting a

after each snazzy remark but that smiley really isn't helping. Just my insight. Take it for what it is

 

[tezzla]

Ive never owned the Karma, i actually own the iriver h340, so i cant comment on how it sounds etc.

However i would suggest you take a close look at its warranty which last i saw was 3 months (90 days), which is quite simply ridiculously short. Considering the original thread starter had warranty issues with ipods, i dont think the karma is the right choice. From what ive heard, and of course this isnt my own experience, the Karma is a great player, but suffers from being quite fragile, and when you combine this with the pathetic warranty, makes a bad combo for an expensive investment. Its what turned me away from it - i considered the ipod 4g, cowon iaudio m3?, the rio karma and the iriver h3xx, and went for iriver in the end.

My 2 cents anyway.

 

[chumley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raynman Always intresting to read these kind of debates Just my thoughts: To the original poster - No matter how prepared you are in paper and all the research you do over the net, actually having the chance to play with and use the device on a daily basis is the only way to decide if the player is right for you. Good luck on your purchase and give us your thoughts once you used it for awhile. To the ipod vs xxx DAP player debate - There will always be people who prefer one thing over the other in DAPs, and every OPINNION by a person is just that, an opinnion. There have been fruitless thread arguements over ipod vs. iriver vs. karma vs. (insert other DAPs) and their ease of use, sound quality, etc. and in the end the conclusion is always the same and evident. DAP choices will and forever will be subjective to each their own. "Different strokes for different folks". In reality, there is no one player better than the others but rather one's opinnion of a player is percieved to be better than the others. It's really as simple as that. To chumley - Like you, I too have very strong opinnions about DAPs. It is very evident in what I have read that everyone in this thread is basically posting their own opinnions even though some may claim they are facts. However, no matter how great you disagree with one poster whether or not what their opinnion they are saying is true or bs, its important to remember that blatantly flaming a person for their own beliefs and idiocracies belongs in PM's and not in threads. I respect your apology in one of your posts in this thread but seeing more than one instance of the same snarkiness troubles me and has been recognized by more than one member already. Honestly, how does this statement below make you look like to others and was the snarkiness really that necessary? You seem to have a habbit of putting a after each snazzy remark but that smiley really isn't helping. Just my insight. Take it for what it is

OK, raynman, here's the deal: that 'snarky' comment you cite of mine is a * JOKE *... the latter part, anyway... that's why I put the smiley there.

You seem to forget/forgive others' snarky, rude, arrogant/ignorant posts, on this thread as well, RM. It's one thing to post an opinion, quite another to constantly slag a company/product because you 'hate' them. I'm not only capable of hearing & learning from others here, which I do almost daily, but I am also capable of rejecting what I perceive as lectures that are meant to pass for 'insights'...

As for 'blatant flaming'; it is not really common here, and although I can come across as 'snarky', I usually manage to control myself from going farther, even if 'farther' might be, in some larger, abstract sense, warranted. And I apologize at those times I feel an apology is appropriate. You might want to try dropping some science on a youngun' or two who happens to be trash-talking a product for no other reason than it's 'cool' not to like that product. THEN, I may see my way clear to being more receptive to our 'little talks'...

Oh, yeah.. about the Karma- I don't feel that the warranty, slim though it may be, is enough to disregard the Karma as a great DAP, which is what I feel it is, and has always been. With care, there's no reason a Karma can't last a long, enjoyable time with NO issues, IMO... most of them manage to, as far as I can tell.

Ther ARE qualitative differences between DAPs, IMO; if it were solely a matter of personal preference, these forums wouldn't be 1/10th as edifying and enjoyable as they are, RM. The tricky thing to do here, with all this often conflicting info, is to parse what one needs to make one's own PERSONAL choice, after digesting it all. THAT'S a neat trick, and one that doesn't get any easier, the more one explores this wonderful resource known as headfi and headfi 'search'...

 

[raynman]

OT:

Quote:

OK, raynman, here's the deal: that 'snarky' comment you cite of mine is a * JOKE *... the latter part, anyway... that's why I put the smiley there.

Eh, of course I understood it was a joke. While it may have been a "funny" joke to you, it came across to me and I am sure many others as sarcastic and rather condescending even to the point of pure arrogance. Actually, all of your "jokes" seem to come across that way IMO to me. All the smileys in the world won't help those kinds of jokes

. That's what I was implying.

Who are you to judge one's own personal sound preference? Your claim that the iPod has the flattest and most clean sound of all DAPs is all but your opinnion. I could give a rats ass if Stereophile, PC Magazine, or iPodlounge said so. It's their own opinnion, their own ears. Not mine. Sound quality is subjective. That is why we are all here no? If xxxxx poster claims the Karma has the best sound quality, take it for what it is. His opinnion. You can give your counterpoint to disprove his opinnion and thats it. Your word versus his. Your choice versus his. There's nothing arrogant/ignorant about that.

However, if a poster claims "the iPod sucks." and gives no reason as to why such, that's not an opinnion but rather a troll who is rude, arrogant, and ignorant. I see no such post on this thread with the likes. Do you? There really is no one who has posted with the likes of sayings to warrant replies implying "Do you belong here" and "This ain't middle school". There's a difference between the two.

Feel free to reply further via PM for I am finnished with this topic.
:end soapbox chat:

 

[chumley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raynman OT: Eh, of course I understood it was a joke. While it may have been a "funny" joke to you, it came across to me and I am sure many others as sarcastic and rather condescending even to the point of pure arrogance. Actually, all of your "jokes" seem to come across that way IMO to me. All the smileys in the world won't help those kinds of jokes . That's what I was implying. Who are you to judge one's own personal sound preference? Your claim that the iPod has the flattest and most clean sound of all DAPs is all but your opinnion. I could give a rats ass if Stereophile, PC Magazine, or iPodlounge said so. It's their own opinnion, their own ears. Not mine. Sound quality is subjective. That is why we are all here no? If xxxxx poster claims the Karma has the best sound quality, take it for what it is. His opinnion. You can give your counterpoint to disprove his opinnion and thats it. Your word versus his. Your choice versus his. There's nothing arrogant/ignorant about that. However, if a poster claims "the iPod sucks." and gives no reason as to why such, that's not an opinnion but rather a troll who is rude, arrogant, and ignorant. I see no such post on this thread with the likes. Do you? There really is no one who has posted with the likes of sayings to warrant replies implying "Do you belong here" and "This ain't middle school". There's a difference between the two. Feel free to reply further via PM for I am finnished with this topic. :end soapbox chat:

Actually, you were done a long time ago, RM... you just didn't know it. Thanks for a glimpse at the RM rulebook. Where'd you pick it up? The alley behind Everett's best pancake house? You know where you can put it.

You're wasting precious time that could be spent listening to music, etc. on a course of corrective, 'me too' rhetoric that's about as fresh as the mud at the botton of Lake Union.

PM you? For what? More of your prissy moralizing? Grow up.

 

[PFRfan]

Just to throw in a few thoughts... (BTW - I couldn't care less about most of what's said here, and maybe should just start a new thread, since this one has gone the way of most popular ones. Anyway here goes).

I picked up a 4G 40GB iPod about a week ago to replace my iHP-140. I basically decided I liked the idea of the navigation, because I got tire of working so hard to find the music I was after. Also, I liked the fact that you had to use software to get the music to play on it. I store a lot of data on my player - backups of lots of stuff, which includes phone ringers and ACID loops, etc. My iRiver picks it ALL up in shuffle mode - AAARRRRRRRGGGGHHH!

After using the iPod exclusively for the past week, it wasn't everything I'd hoped, but a very good product. The sleekness and build quality is really beyond anything else I've used. I suppose that the touch series from Creative is in the same ballpark.

The navigation is nice, but not as good as hoped. I'm constantly looking at the thing to get what I need. When I'm scrolling through a bunch of stuff, I get in the neighborhood faster, because of the accelleration. But then when I need to zero in, I have to look, move my finger, move it more, more, more, THERE - wait, too far!!!!! Maybe I'm clumsy, but with the iRiver, when I finally get close (which I can check by glancing), I can clearly see the Rick Elias is 3 more steps up, I pay attention to the road or screen or whatever, click the mini-joystick three times and I'm there. All in all, it's not really an improvement for me - just different. That said, the iPod's wheel has a cool factor that's WAY up there.

I like the fact that it charges off of USB. Actually I like that a WHOLE lot. That said, my iRiver stays charged so long, even when I use it as a hard drive, that it doesn't really matter.

I LOVE the boot time on the iPod. One of the frustrating things about the iRiver is that I turn it on, have to wait for 20 or 30 seconds before I start doing anything. Usually that means I get distracted, it powers off after some idle time, and I have to start over. iPod is definately better here. There's NO sleep mode on the iHP. (Hey - I just found the "Stop Power Off" setting and raised it from 1 to 3 minutes. That's an improvement, but it still takes too long to boot).

All of what I've said though had me still leaning towards keeping the iPod and selling the iRiver. That was until tonight. I received my E3C's today and have been doing a little bit of testing. I drop the same 320K MP3 on both units, flatline the EQ, and test. To my ears, the iRiver is better.

I don't know the details of the DAC's, and if I did I wouldn't understand them. Maybe it's the DAC, maybe the amp stage, I don't know. But there's definately a fuller sound with a little more detail. The difference is not night and day to me, but it's perceptable. I expected the same quality, or slightly better from the iPod, but the reverse is true to my ears. The iPod just comes out sounding a little thin. Good, but not as good as the iHP. Also, the ability to go optical out only adds to the potential uses.

In addition, I picked up the Griffin iTalk because I record church services from time to time, as well as notes pretty regularly. Maybe mines bad, but it's a piece of junk! You hit record, it's starts, I start talking, I stop talking, I hit stop. When I play it back, it's picked up maybe 25% of what I say which crackles, etc. Doesn't matter if I hold it near or far, speak loud or quiet, or waiting longer before beginning. It cuts off the front, the end, and jacks up the middle. It's worthless to me.

So. My iPod is going back (unless somebody wants to buy it). I'm keeping the Mini I got for my wife because here audio standards are lower (therefore the 128K files), and is not going to have more than 500-600 songs.

My 2 cents.

 

[dosun]

One of the main reasons that IPOD is such a success is because Apple was first in the market with an elegant, easy to use MP3 player. Remember the first generation of HDD Mp3 players? Apple was the only one that had a decent looking one. I remember Creative released one and it was the size of a CD player. I didn't think there was even a close compeditor(well sony could have with their MD line but they chose only to support Atract

). Most people think that 128k mp3 sounds decent and the Ipod gave what people wanted at an affordable price.
Now when people want a DAP they just think IPOD and go buy it. Its a hell of a lot easier to buy what your friends have than to spend hours compariing, especially from unknow companies. Most people in the US has never heard of Iaudio or Iriver. While there might be better players at better prices, the IPod does what 90% of the people want from their DAPs, plays mp3s.

 

[Thisp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFRfan The navigation is nice, but not as good as hoped. I'm constantly looking at the thing to get what I need. When I'm scrolling through a bunch of stuff, I get in the neighborhood faster, because of the accelleration. But then when I need to zero in, I have to look, move my finger, move it more, more, more, THERE - wait, too far!!!!! Maybe I'm clumsy, but with the iRiver, when I finally get close (which I can check by glancing), I can clearly see the Rick Elias is 3 more steps up, I pay attention to the road or screen or whatever, click the mini-joystick three times and I'm there. All in all, it's not really an improvement for me - just different. That said, the iPod's wheel has a cool factor that's WAY up there.

Physical scroll wheels rule.

In addition to the stick - I love my DAP's interface. Touchpads are nice, but the circular ones hurt my thumb..

 

[bundee1]

I feel another slapfight coming.

Here are the rules:
No
hair pulling
eyegouging
heel throwing
purse swinging.

Your nails must be trimmed and no press-ons.

FIGHT FOR YOUR DAP!

 

[chumley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundee1 I feel another slapfight coming. Here are the rules: No hair pulling eyegouging heel throwing purse swinging. Your nails must be trimmed and no press-ons. FIGHT FOR YOUR DAP!

Thought I'd share this PM I just received from Raynman today, just for laughs ...
* gasp *, * sniff * ... too funny...

" Quote:

Originally Posted by raynman Chumley, Haha I guess you do have a sense of humor after all old man Thank you for prooving to me and to the rest of the forum what a jackass you truly are. Unlike you, I actually have the decency to know how to post. Go back to your crumbling home wherever that maybe and examine yourself. Having problems with your marriage is it? Your daughter hates you because you spend too much time at work earning them big bucks? No? ahh, I know. You're one of those men who can't stand the size of their penis therefore make up for it behind a facade on the internet. Gotcha. Get some help please. This is Frasier Crane signing off.

"

I'll be out that way for a conference, actually, in the next few weeks, RM... I like to stop by some of my old haunts from back in the day, like Two Bells, the Comet Tavern, the Ballard Fire House and a few local independent/college radio stations... Let me know where and when you'd like to get together, RM. I'm an easy person to spot- I favor suits this time of year when I'm out that way; Hispanic, 6'4", 230 lbs... for the last fifteen years, I've successfully fought off 'desk belly' by getting a black belt in Ju Jitzu, and I grew up in Washington Heights, NYC, so if you'd like to get together for a beer, any time/neighborhood in Seattle's just fine with me...

Anyway, I'd really like to hear all this and more, in person, from someone who's obviously got the motivation to share his insights into both DAPs AND my personal life... whaddya say, RM?

I'll assume another PM from you will be forthcoming...

 

[beernutz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IpodSF WOW! For those of you who hate the iPod, your just werid. Weird I say werid! Because around 10 million people disagree with you.

Yeah, and since McDonalds is the most popular hamburger it must be the best.