[Lindy]

For all you IPOD owners out there, I have a couple of questions. I just ordered a 20G IPOD (4th gen with click wheel, non-color) from amazon. My daughter has an IPOD Shuffle, so I'm only a little familiar with IPOD protocols.

1. Are you forced to synch the daddy 20G IPOD to one (and only one) computer like you do with the baby Shuffle?
2. Are you forced to use itunes to manage the music on the 20G IPOD?

With the Shuffle, I was able to find some 3rd party software that allows me to drag-and-drop songs/folders on it just as though it's an ordinary removable hard drive (using ms explorer). So itunes and its irritating, clumsy DRM scheme is out of the picture. I own ~3000 retail CD's, so source material is not an issue. I'm not trying to do anything illegal or unethical. I just want to do it MY WAY. I'm probably in the minority, but I really don't like itunes.

BTW--
After promotional coupons, free shipping, and amazon VISA gift certificate rewards, the IPOD was only ~$100 -- so I couldn't pass it up.

Thanks!


<Edit>
Sorry if this is the wrong forum -- please feel free to move to "Portable Audio" forum. Thanks.

 

[pank2002]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lindy For all you IPOD owners out there, I have a couple of questions. I just ordered a 20G IPOD (4th gen with click wheel, non-color) from amazon. My daughter has an IPOD Shuffle, so I’m only a little familiar with IPOD protocols. [...] BTW— After promotional coupons, free shipping, and amazon VISA gift certificate rewards, the IPOD was only ~$100 — so I couldn’t pass it up.

Congratulation! You’ll be happy with it!
Quote:

1. Are you forced to synch the daddy 20G IPOD to one (and only one) computer like you do with the baby Shuffle? 2. Are you forced to use itunes to manage the music on the 20G IPOD?

1. No. You have to if you use autosync, I think.
2. There’s quite a few alternatives. Among these are a winamp plugin, a foobar2k plugin, a dedicated program called Anapod from red chair and my favorite: J.R Media Center. There’s also a program called ephPod, but it isn’t updated regularly anymore.
Also, there’s a Java program called MediaChest on source forge but it’s not very easy to use.
Quote:

With the Shuffle, I was able to find some 3rd party software that allows me to drag-and-drop songs/folders on it just as though it’s an ordinary removable hard drive (using ms explorer). So itunes and its irritating, clumsy DRM scheme is out of the picture.

I presume you use iPod shuffle Database Builder

Quote:

I just want to do it MY WAY. I’m probably in the minority, but I really don’t like itunes.

I hate iTunes. As stated above, I prefer J. River Media Center.

 

[Lindy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pank2002 ... and my favorite: J.R Media Center.

Hmmm. This looks interesting. Do you know offhand which version I'd need to simply load up the new IPOD and manage my library? Could I get by with Media Jukebox 8.0 Basic (free)? Or is one of the others ($$$) required to do that -- Jukebox 8.0 Plus, Media Center 10.0, or Media Center 11.0? I'm having difficulty figuring this out even while staring at the product comparison chart.

Quote:

I presume you use iPod shuffle Database Builder

Yup! That's the one.

Thanks!

 

[pank2002]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lindy Hmmm. This looks interesting. Do you know offhand which version I’d need to simply load up the new IPOD and manage my library? Could I get by with Media Jukebox 8.0 Basic (free)? Or is one of the others ($$$) required to do that — Jukebox 8.0 Plus, Media Center 10.0, or Media Center 11.0? I’m having difficulty figuring this out even while staring at the product comparison chart.

MC8 doesn’t support iPod. You have to at least get v10. I like v11 better though. If you go for v11 you can also lobby for new features in their forum

Try it out for the 30 free days. See if you like it. If you have problems or questions just ask (in their forum). They are usually helpful and I am not aware of bashing.

I like the following way to organize what is on my iPod:
http://www.jrmediacenter.com/Larry_L...gement_MC.html

The shuffle db script is great btw! Unfortunaltly there is no support for Shuffle at the moment. Steve (their portable-guy) plans to add it though...

edit: ask Steve, in the portable forum, which version you’d need for simple iPod support.

 

[Kestrel]

Quote:

BTW-- After promotional coupons, free shipping, and amazon VISA gift certificate rewards, the IPOD was only ~$100 -- so I couldn't pass it up.

Please PM those details assuming we aren't talking about gift cards here

 

[blessingx]

I can understand not liking iTunes, but mind if I ask what clumsy DRM scheme you are referring to?

 

[yyoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pank2002 I like the following way to organize what is on my iPod: http://www.jrmediacenter.com/Larry_L...gement_MC.html

Wow. That seems like a lot of work for what you can do with a few simple playlists in iTunes. Here's what you'd do in iTunes to accomplish the same thing for managing two iPods. And, as a bonus, you don't have to edit any tags or playlist definitions to manage your library! Tell me if I'm missing something here.

1. Create a regular (not "smart") playlist, say, "ipod1."
2. Create a smart playlist called, say, "not_in_ipod1." Set the playlist to only include songs that are NOT in the "ipod1" playlist (it's trivial to do this in iTunes: select "Playlist", "is not", and "ipod1" from the three picklists in the smart playlists setup dialog).
3. Create a regular (not "smart") playlist called, say, "ipod2."
4. Create a smart playlist called, "not_in_ipod2." Set the playlist to only include songs that are NOT in the "ipod2" playlist.
5. Drag songs into ipod1 and ipod2 to add to these playlists. To remove songs from these playlists you simply highlight and hit the Delete key. Note that your not_in_ipod1 and not_in_ipod2 playlists will automatically stay up-to-date.
6. Set your iPods to synch from selected playlists (ipod1 and ipod2 respectively) instead of synching every song automatically. This is also a simple procedure.

As for the concern about Apple's DRM that someone else mentioned, the DRM only applies to songs purchased from the iTunes Music Store. The DRM does not affect songs you rip from your own CDs or get elsewhere off the internet. It's not an issue at all if you don't buy from the iTunes Music Store, and IMHO it isn't much of an issue anyway.

 

[Lindy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx I can understand not liking iTunes, but mind if I ask what clumsy DRM scheme you are referring to?

Let me start by saying I may totally be misunderstanding the situation. If so, please help me understand better. I'm relatively new to digital music devices, so there's still a lot for me to learn.

I can only speak to how it works on the Shuffle for now as that's the only iPod I currently have.

What I meant is this: it really irritates me that, if using Apple's standard method, I have to synch the Shuffle to ONE computer. When I go to the office, I'd like to be able to manage the music that's currently on the device. As far as I can figure out, iTunes will not let you do that. It wants to "resynch" to the second computer, and in the process delete everything I already have on the Shuffle. I haven't been able to figure out a way around this with Apple's SOP.

I'd like to use the Shuffle to transport my mp3's between my home computer and my work computer. With the Apple DRM scheme, that doesn't seem possible, even though I've ripped everything from my own CD's.

Is it possible to use the "removable hard drive" feature of the Shuffle to transport mp3's between computers? If so, that's great, but still a pain. I want to use the entire Shuffle set to "Music" and not have to create artificial partitions on it. The iPod Database Builder app seems to solve these problems for the Shuffle.

With the iPod Database Builder software referred to in the posts above, you simply treat your Shuffle like a removable hard drive. Copy any files or folders to the Shuffle using MS file explorer (do this however you want, build any legal folder structure, name files however you want within ms limitations), run the little script, and voila! It's ready to go. Now when I take my Shuffle to my work computer, I can download the mp3's if I want to, manage the files, whatever...

Not sure I understand all the implications yet -- I'm still learning. But the above issues are what I meant when I referred to their "clumsy DRM scheme".

Perhaps you have a different take or understanding of it?

 

[Lindy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kestrel Please PM those details assuming we aren't talking about gift cards here

Nothing magical -- just stacked a few things on top of each other to get that price. The biggest part of knocking the price down was the four $25 gift certificates I saved up from using the amazon.com VISA card. For every 2500 "points" you accumulate by using their credit card, you get a $25 gift certificate.

Here's how the math actually worked out:
$229.98 --> 20G 4th Gen iPod (non-color)
$15.00 --> iTunes $15 pre-paid card (required to activate promotional code)
$6.76 --> S&H
-------------
$251.74 --> Total before discounts

- $37.99 --> Promotional code obtained from techbargains.com
- $6.76 --> Free S&H at amazon.com on items > $25
- $100.00 --> amazon.com VISA card rewards gift certificates
-------------
$106.99 --> Amount due after discounts

So you can't get the $100 off unless you spend a lot of money using their credit card. I've been saving them up for a while for this purpose. With their CC, usually $1 spent = 1 point earned, which means you need to spend $10,000 on the card to get the $100 rebate. I think amazon will double the points if you spend the money at their site.

Still, $206 for a 20G 4th Gen iPod, with a $15 iTunes GC and free shipping is not too bad. Keep your eyes on techbargains.com -- they often list deals like this.

 

[pank2002]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yyoo Wow. That seems like a lot of work for what you can do with a few simple playlists in iTunes. Here’s what you’d do in iTunes to accomplish the same thing for managing two iPods. And, as a bonus, you don’t have to edit any tags or playlist definitions to manage your library! Tell me if I’m missing something here. 1. Create a regular (not “smart”) playlist, say, “ipod1.” 2. Create a smart playlist called, say, “not_in_ipod1.” Set the playlist to only include songs that are NOT in the “ipod1” playlist (it’s trivial to do this in iTunes: select “Playlist”, “is not”, and “ipod1” from the three picklists in the smart playlists setup dialog). 3. Create a regular (not “smart”) playlist called, say, “ipod2.” 4. Create a smart playlist called, “not_in_ipod2.” Set the playlist to only include songs that are NOT in the “ipod2” playlist. 5. Drag songs into ipod1 and ipod2 to add to these playlists. To remove songs from these playlists you simply highlight and hit the Delete key. Note that your not_in_ipod1 and not_in_ipod2 playlists will automatically stay up-to-date. 6. Set your iPods to synch from selected playlists (ipod1 and ipod2 respectively) instead of synching every song automatically. This is also a simple procedure. As for the concern about Apple’s DRM that someone else mentioned, the DRM only applies to songs purchased from the iTunes Music Store. The DRM does not affect songs you rip from your own CDs or get elsewhere off the internet. It’s not an issue at all if you don’t buy from the iTunes Music Store, and IMHO it isn’t much of an issue anyway.

What’s so clumsy about it? You create a new tag and make two smart lists and a view schreem. I don’t see anything complicated about it.

Also, since the list you define is a playlist (rather than a smartlist) it won’t get autoupdated when new music is added and thus it’s not as functional (IMO).

 

[blessingx]

Hey Lindy, I was just trying to figure out if there was some confusion between iTMS and iTunes (as there is sometimes when discussing DRM). As for iTunes (which like I said I can understand some not liking), it's 'sync' feature is really that - a feature that you can turn off. Although a lot of related pluses of iTunes is built around the sync, I never use it. Since my collection is larger than my iPod I always manually move my files over. The other stumbling block (and really the only major compromise Apple made with the RIAA - it's important to remember the climate when iTunes was originally released - threatened lawsuits over the 'Rip. Mix. Burn' campaign, etc.) is out of the box iTunes only lets you transfer one direction - to the iPod. There are many couple dollar programs to assist in the other direction. Course you still have the iTunes requirement which doesn't solve an OTGUSB file move. This isn't likely to change anytime soon as most prefer it and iTunes is inherently what keeps the ripping/playlist/transfer easy for most users, but it's easy enough to overcome at a computer with internet access since iTunes is a free download.

Again there are other program options listed in posts above that eliminate the need for iTunes (but they require downloading to the computer also), however iTunes may not be as restrictive as you think (especially concerning syncing).

 

[Elephas]

Apple implemented a slightly different type of restriction on the Shuffle. It only syncs to one computer. Other iPods can connect to multiple computers, and is restricted to one computer only when autosync is active.

I don't blame Apple for iTMS DRM or the restrictions on tranferring/copying your music through iTunes and iPods. The music companies are the ones who insist on these measures.

 

[Lindy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas Apple implemented a slightly different type of restriction on the Shuffle. It only syncs to one computer. Other iPods can connect to multiple computers, and is restricted to one computer only when autosync is active.

Elephas, thanks for clearing this up. I thought it might be something like this -- namely different software implementations across the iPod platform.

 

[Elephas]

Here's a quote from Apple's iPod shuffle FAQ page.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300657

"Can I take a friend's iPod shuffle and browse or play its content on my machine (like I can with other iPods)?
No, there is no manual mode that allows you to view or play the content from a friend's iPod shuffle on your computer. This also means that you cannot load music from multiple computers or iTunes libraries onto iPod shuffle like you can with other iPods."

I don't own a shuffle anymore, and am not familiar with its workarounds. Although Apple has built-in some limitations, note that there may be third-party software or techniques to circumvent these restrictions.

 

[yyoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pank2002 What’s so clumsy about it? You create a new tag and make two smart lists and a view schreem. I don’t see anything complicated about it. Also, since the list you define is a playlist (rather than a smartlist) it won’t get autoupdated when new music is added and thus it’s not as functional (IMO).

First, you yourself acknowledge in the instructions that it's a "complex setup." With iTunes it's a very easy setup and very easy maintenance since you don't have to edit tags or playlist definitions. You simply drag and drop files from your not_in_iPod playlist, and to remove a song you simply delete the files from your active playlist (note that this does not actually erase the song files from your disk; the songs simply disappear from your active playlist and automagically reappear in the not_in_iPod playlist).

As for new music, you can with one click sort your not_in_iPod list by "date added" and then drag and drop the songs at the top of the list into your active playlist. It's simple and there's the added benefit of your latest additions NOT appearing in your active playlists automatically. I add music to my library frequently and just as often than not I don't want it in my active playlists because my song library is twice as large as my already-crammed 60 GB iPod. Also, if you manage several iPods for yourself because you want to separate and segregate your music by iPod, having new songs auto-added to all active playlists would be a bad idea.

But...if you really MUST have all new songs automatically added to all of your active playlists, simply create a smart playlist for newly added songs (e.g., songs added in the last month) and have the iPods synch both their manually maintained playlist and the smart playlist for newly added songs. Also set the not_in_iPod playlists to exclude songs from the new songs smart playlist.

I'm sure the average user could set up all of this much quicker in iTunes AND find it much easier to maintain as well, since there are no tags to edit after the fact.