[riccardo]

Hey guys, I would need some help from you as I'm looking for a new dap with certain features, so here we are:
 
I am recently becoming more and more dissatisfied with my ipod classic, especially since i bought my first pair of high-end iems (shure's SE535), which of course bring out all that's wrong with the source more than cheap earphones.
When i do a/b comparisons of the same mp3 files played through my laptop and other (non portable) sources the music always sound so much better. I especially detect a lack of details and both highs and lows don't sound as good (sorry if I'm not able to describe much better). I know many people  here use ipods as their main portable source so I was wondering whether it's just me hearing things.
Anyway, I'm now in the market for a new dap. It doesn't have to be the best source in the whole world, just something good and, especially, better than the ipod at playing music. What I'd really need is a great storage size tho, as I travel often and I like to bring with me a good part of my music library, for the same reason I'd need it to last a while without needing to recharge (a day at least). The 160 gb of the ipod are great but if that's unrealistic to find in a different dap, I could be satisfied with around 100 GB of either dap hard disk storage capacity or hard disk + flash memory (flash memory could be even better as I could take with me more than one SD cards if I find I need more storage space).
A nice screen and being able to watch videos is always nice but not a requirement, it'll be used for music mostly if not exclusively, and, I might add, mostly acoustic folk, folk-rock, indie rock, some occasional pop and jazz.
Also, of course, I have a budget, currently around 300€ tops.
 
I was interested at cowon among the many other brands but I'm not sure which one would offer the best quality at an affordable price...
 
Thanks for your help!

 

[H20Fidelity]

Cowon X7 has 160Gb storage, that may possibly be what you're after. Howeve,r I still class them as a mainstream sounding player. If however you lose the video requirement and focus purely on enhancing your music Colorfly C3 is worth considering, you won't have a big screen, you will be swapping out 32GB SD (64GB formatted to FAT32) cards however it's about the sound quality not the features. Purely sound quality to get the best out of your IEM's.

 

[ANDEROAN]

are you using the 30 pin LO of the iPod? that will make the first big diference, although going down that road is the first step to a larger portable rig? cuz you will need an amp to go along with it, I suggest the ZOv2.3, but there are also many great smaller amps out there,
 
and if you want even more detail getting the CLAS will give you that! but now your growing by leaps and bounds!

 

 

[riccardo]

Quote:

are you using the 30 pin LO of the iPod? that will make the first big diference, although going down that road is the first step to a larger portable rig? cuz you will need an amp to go along with it, I suggest the ZOv2.3, but there are also many great smaller amps out there,
 
and if you want even more detail getting the CLAS will give you that! but now your growing by leaps and bounds!

 

 
No, actually I'm using the headphone out. I didn't consider that option, as I'm not an expert so I wouldn't know exactly what to buy. I wouldn't mind for the rig to be a bit bulkier though within reason, from the pic you posted i don't understand exactly how many devices you have attached to that ipod and how big they are. If it was just one amp and not too heavy I would consider it, but I'd also would like to know about costs, because if I'm going to spend a considerable amount of money then I'd just switch source. What are the advantages of using the 30 pin LO?
Also, I'm checking info about the ZO and it seems to be all about bass (at least in their presentation page on the website), which isn't my main concern, it's probably more about overall detail.

 

[merkil]

Quote:

 
No, actually I'm using the headphone out. I didn't consider that option, as I'm not an expert so I wouldn't know exactly what to buy. I wouldn't mind for the rig to be a bit bulkier though within reason, from the pic you posted i don't understand exactly how many devices you have attached to that ipod and how big they are. If it was just one amp and not too heavy I would consider it, but I'd also would like to know about costs, because if I'm going to spend a considerable amount of money then I'd just switch source. What are the advantages of using the 30 pin LO?
Also, I'm checking info about the ZO and it seems to be all about bass (at least in their presentation page on the website), which isn't my main concern, it's probably more about overall detail.

 
 
Using the 30 pin basically bypasses the internal amp inside the iPod. when you get an external amp you will be feeding it the pure digital signal which is what you want. 

 

[riccardo]

Quote:

Cowon X7 has 160Gb storage, that may possibly be what you're after. Howeve,r I still class them as a mainstream sounding player. If however you lose the video requirement and focus purely on enhancing your music Colorfly C3 is worth considering, you won't have a big screen, you will be swapping out 32GB SD (64GB formatted to FAT32) cards however it's about the sound quality not the features. Purely sound quality to get the best out of your IEM's.

 
Thanks for the info. Did you ever try the Colorfly C3? How easy is to use the UI and is it possible to do stuff such as create playlists on the go? I'll have a look to the topics dedicated to it in here too, but I was wondering if you had any answers to those questions.

 

[skamp]

Here's the effect of the iPod Classic's output impedance of 5.5Ω on my Shure SE425s. Compare to the Clip+ (0.5Ω) with those. In any case, you want a DAP that has a near 0Ω output impedance. You could keep the iPod and use it with a decent headphone amplifier (via the LOD), or you could get something like the Clip+.

 

[riccardo]

Quote:

Here's the effect of the iPod Classic's output impedance of 5.5Ω on my Shure SE425s. Compare to the Clip+ (0.5Ω) with those. In any case, you want a DAP that has a near 0Ω output impedance. You could keep the iPod and use it with a decent headphone amplifier (via the LOD), or you could get something like the Clip+.

 
I'm not entirely sure how to read the data you posted, I'm really a newbie with all this stuff. But if I am interpreting the first graph right it seems like the Clip+ has a flatter response across the whole frequency range with your SE425s (I guess it won't be that diffenent with my 535s). Is that a good thing generally? Also, could that be the reason why with my ipod i hear some sibilance in the high frequencies that I don't hear when I use my 535s with other sources? Because if that's the case and I can at least solve the sibilance problems it could already be a step forward. Besides a Clip+ is really not that expensive and easy to find and if I buy it online (at least from european stores) I can even send it back within 10 days if I don't like it.
So that could be a solution to at least consider for me. Just two things slightly bothering me, battery and storage capacity. Does it work with those new 64 and 128 GB sdxc cards if formatted properly?
I see you have a rockboxed ipod classic as I do, do you use a headphone amplifier (via LOD) or just headphones straight out of it? are you satisfied with SQ?
Thanks for the help!

 

[skamp]

But if I am interpreting the first graph right it seems like the Clip+ has a flatter response across the whole frequency range with your SE425s (I guess it won't be that diffenent with my 535s). Is that a good thing generally?

Yes, that's exactly what you want, a flat frequency response. Because of the iPod's relatively high output impedance, the highs are over-emphasized with my Shures, though 1.5 dB really isn't that much, and it doesn't bother me, personally. Also note that the distortion figures on the iPod are higher than with the Clip+, but I have no idea how high they would need to be in order to be audible. I'm not bothered in the slightest, though.

Also, could that be the reason why with my ipod i hear some sibilance in the high frequencies that I don't hear when I use my 535s with other sources?

Yes, emphasized highs could be the reason. Also, I don't know if the impedance curve on your SE535's is the same as my SE425's. Maybe it's more pronounced on yours?

Does it work with those new 64 and 128 GB sdxc cards if formatted properly?

I've read reports that 64 GB microSDXC cards do work with the Clip+ when formatted as FAT32. I can't confirm though, as I don't have a microSDXC card.

I see you have a rockboxed ipod classic as I do, do you use a headphone amplifier (via LOD) or just headphones straight out of it? are you satisfied with SQ?

Straight from the headphone out. Very satisfied, but bare in mind that:
1) the FR variations and distortion figures aren't that high with my setup (they might be higher with your SE535's);
2) I'm not difficult to please.

Objectively speaking though, the Clip+ is a better match to my SE425s. I'm using it right now

 

[riccardo]

Quote:

Objectively speaking though, the Clip+ is a better match to my SE425s. I'm using it right now

 
I think you may have convinced me. It's not I am totally unsatisfied by the ipod, it's just not as good as with other sources like my laptop (which I don't even think has such a great sound card or anything), so given the very low price I might really try a sansa clip+

 

[skamp]

I got a refurb for €25 on Amazon, but I ended up getting a full refund because the screen sometimes goes dim (which I found I can fix by banging it on a table lol). So in the end, I got it for free What a great deal.

 

[skamp]

FWIW, I don't have a comprehensive list of DAPs with near 0Ω impedance (I wish I did), but another DAP to consider is the latest iPod Touch (5G), which measures at 0.75Ω, which is excellent. Obviously it's much more expensive, but I got to play with one for 15 minutes, and I have to say, it's one sexy beast, with a great UI, and it sounds great. I'd probably buy one if I had enough disposable income.

 

[riccardo]

Quote:

FWIW, I don't have a comprehensive list of DAPs with near 0Ω impedance (I wish I did), but another DAP to consider is the latest iPod Touch (5G), which measures at 0.75Ω, which is excellent. Obviously it's much more expensive, but I got to play with one for 15 minutes, and I have to say, it's one sexy beast, with a great UI, and it sounds great. I'd probably buy one if I had enough disposable income.

 
I totally agree with you on the UI, but at about 400€ and with no card slot to expand the internal memory or change music it's not the one for me. Right now I'm thinking about the sansa clip+ or the cowon z2 if I feel like spending more money and having a better UI and more functions and supposedly sounding a bit better than an ipod (tho I'm not sure about the impedence).
And about the sibilance thing we discussed above, I can see that it's not bothering you, I think it has something to do with my ears/brain. I've had the same problem with other iems, maybe my ears are more sensitive to highs than other people's but I'm glad to see from your data that it might be something really having to do with the ipod and not just my brain making things up

 

[skamp]

Here are the impedance curves of both the SE425's and the SE535's:

 

[Marburger]

2 Riccardo, 
 
Hifiman 601 would give you good step up, from your current ipod classic. I had all ipods, iphone and they sounded same muffled and with "toy" like soundstage. Hifiman sounds very good even if you move to high end custom iems. Mine plays with UM Miracle very fine. Besides you can use multiple sd cards up to 32 gb. But I am fine with my current 16 gb capacity, i do not carry large music library.