[Sweet Spot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman Run that one past me again, would you?

LOL...I think he means that he'd rather sit around for a few hours and record albums in real time !

@austin: Quote:

You can simply store Ephpod on the iPod's hard drive, plug the iPod into ANY computer, its automatically detected, run Ephod from the Ipod's hard drive, and load music to the iPod. NO SOFTWARE NEEDED ON TARGET PC. I know it works, because that's how I do it when I'm away from home and i don't want to (or can't) install iTunes on a PC.

Hold on a minute bud...Think about this for a second, logically:
A few flaws seen in your statement. First one being, that one day, the user accidentally deletes the Ephod proggie from the iPods HD, and when they get to their destination, they're like "Oh crap, where's the software?" So in fact, it IS true that you'd need software on the "target PC". And even if you did have it with you, I don't see how you consider HAVING to carry a piece of software with you in order to do said task, just as convenient as plugging in the IHP, dragging and dropping with no worries of the former issue....

Also, just for the simple FACT that you DO NEED iTUnes in order to build the iPods music DB (for the purpose of playing the files directly after transfer, not just for storing them), makes the IHP even more of a convenience/better bang for the buck TO ME. (And the IHP's are always cheaper anyway)

Anyway, this is not meant to be argumentative...only throwing in my half penny. It's just that if *I* was a newb, and needed straight facts, I would want to know the most intimate details in all areas. The small things make a huge difference, which is why I chose the IHP, and have never felt the need to complain about its features/functionality. Perhaps if I was used to the way of the iPod, I might feel a bit out of place with the IHP, but thankfully, I've not yet been corrupted.

 

[Slimm]

"Also, just for the simple FACT that you DO NEED iTUnes in order to build the iPods music DB (for the purpose of playing the files directly after transfer, not just for storing them), makes the IHP even more of a convenience/better bang for the buck TO ME. (And the IHP's are always cheaper anyway)"

Don't you also NEED a program to build the IHP's DB? You need something to make the tags, or at least rip the cd's, right?

 

[Sweet Spot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slimm "Also, just for the simple FACT that you DO NEED iTUnes in order to build the iPods music DB (for the purpose of playing the files directly after transfer, not just for storing them), makes the IHP even more of a convenience/better bang for the buck TO ME. (And the IHP's are always cheaper anyway)" Don't you also NEED a program to build the IHP's DB? You need something to make the tags, or at least rip the cd's, right?

Yes. And at the same token, you can keep the IHP's DB software on the HD and run the software straight from IT. I think what I neglected to bring up, is that you don't need to use the DB mode at all with the IHP because of the file tree mode. You can play a song after transferring it over, right after disconnecting the player, something you can't do w/iPod unless you've imported the song with iTunes etc.... And I think we're only talking about transferring here..not ripping/encoding/tagging. That's a totally seperate issue, which both players fall under the same category with.

 

[Slimm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Spot Yes. And at the same token, you can keep the IHP's DB software on the HD and run the software straight from IT. I think what I neglected to bring up, is that you don't need to use the DB mode at all with the IHP because of the file tree mode. You can play a song after transferring it over, right after disconnecting the player, something you can't do w/iPod unless you've imported the song with iTunes etc.... And I think we're only talking about transferring here..not ripping/encoding/tagging. That's a totally seperate issue, which both players fall under the same category with.

SS, I respect your opinion, but I really think you're making a mountain out of a mohill. "You can play a song directly after transferring it to the IHP, you can't with the iPod until you import it?" C'mon now.

The only difference I see is a preference for a file tree organization of music as opposed to a database organization.

And it's not necessarily a separate issue. Most of the time I see others don't want to use a program to transfer over files to their DAP because "it's pretty much a resource hog". Truth be told you still need to use those resources to rip and encode the files. You can use iTunes to do that for the iPod, and don't need "additional" software to transfer the files.

 

[austonia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Spot LOL...I think he means that he'd rather sit around for a few hours and record albums in real time ! @austin: Hold on a minute bud...Think about this for a second, logically: A few flaws seen in your statement. First one being, that one day, the user accidentally deletes the Ephod proggie from the iPods HD, and when they get to their destination, they're like "Oh crap, where's the software?" So in fact, it IS true that you'd need software on the "target PC". And even if you did have it with you, I don't see how you consider HAVING to carry a piece of software with you in order to do said task, just as convenient as plugging in the IHP, dragging and dropping with no worries of the former issue.... Also, just for the simple FACT that you DO NEED iTUnes in order to build the iPods music DB (for the purpose of playing the files directly after transfer, not just for storing them), makes the IHP even more of a convenience/better bang for the buck TO ME. (And the IHP's are always cheaper anyway) Anyway, this is not meant to be argumentative...only throwing in my half penny. It's just that if *I* was a newb, and needed straight facts, I would want to know the most intimate details in all areas. The small things make a huge difference, which is why I chose the IHP, and have never felt the need to complain about its features/functionality. Perhaps if I was used to the way of the iPod, I might feel a bit out of place with the IHP, but thankfully, I've not yet been corrupted.

lol.. what is this about accidently deleting Ephpod. yeah, and if you accidently format your hard drive you're screwed too, so whats the point. nobody has that problem. and no, you don't need ITUNES specifically. how hard is that to grasp. There's Ephpod & Anapod, maybe others. Have you ever used an iPod, really? You don't need any special program for transfering music or data to iPod, only for adding new music to the player's dB so you can see it in the iPod's GUI.

 

[austonia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Spot Yes. And at the same token, you can keep the IHP's DB software on the HD and run the software straight from IT. I think what I neglected to bring up, is that you don't need to use the DB mode at all with the IHP because of the file tree mode. You can play a song after transferring it over, right after disconnecting the player, something you can't do w/iPod unless you've imported the song with iTunes etc.... And I think we're only talking about transferring here..not ripping/encoding/tagging. That's a totally seperate issue, which both players fall under the same category with.

you know what's funny. "importing" tracks to iPod with Ephpod, or iTunes, or whatever, is so equivalent to "importing" them to the iHP with expolorer.exe.

no magic here man, you have to use a program to the job, whether it comes bundled with windows or whether you have to spend a whole 5 minutes of you life to download it and install it on the player. That's the fact, jack.

 

[bangraman]

You can flag Ephpod executable as read only of course if you want to protect against accidental erasure.

 

[wolfen68]

I'm mostly impartial...so don't hurt me....

...but try getting your music off the ipod to a pc if itunes loaded it. Good Luck. That DRM feature really takes away from the coveted true "usb mass storage device".

 

[DigDub]

imo, i would think that the ihp's transfer of music files for listening is more simple and convenient than using ipod with ephpod. the ihp can function as a usb mass storage device, meaning that any operating systems that can detect external hardisks can also see the ihp. and if it sees the ihp, drag the music files you want into the ihp and listen straight away. its that simple. almost every OS i know comes with some kind of file explorer and the decent ones can see external storage devices.

for the ipod, you have to start the ephpod (which btw, IS 'additional software'. i.e. you cannot transfer music to ipod and listen to it natively like an ihp). and you have to figure if that version of ephpod will work with your OS or not. not very convenient i would say. no doubt it organises the music files into nice databases. but not everyone listens to music the same way. i have used the nomad zen before and i believe it offers some similar sort of music arrangement capabilities (i.e. by categories, search, etc). i, for one, prefers to use the file tree method over the db method because i usually listen by albums which are put into folders.

oh, and this reply is also directed at the 'ipod vs ihp: Loading and managing the music' thread, because, in all fairness, in terms of simplicity in loading music, without considering the preference or advantages for db or filetree mode, the ihp wins. why? as stated earlier, any OS that can see external storage will be able to transfer and play the music. using ephod, well, you have to use ephpod, which is also OS dependent.

if i have any misconceptions about the ephpod, please enlighten me as this is what i could gather.

 

[Slimm]

Great points Digdub, but you also have the option of using iTunes, which is an easier program argueably than Ephpod.

Again, all you need to do is drag and drop to the iPod in Itunes. You don't need to even sync, just drag and drop to the iPod through iTunes, disengage and off you go. The ONLY difference is Itunes is running. The motions and actions are the same as far as getting music on the player.

I'm not trying to say you shouldn't prefer the IHP for it's file structure (no tags), but just trying to dispell this "myth" that it's "easier to get music on the IHP than the Ipod". I've owned both, used them both on Windows and a Mac, and it's just not easier.

 

[austonia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigDub imo, i would think that the ihp's transfer of music files for listening is more simple and convenient than using ipod with ephpod. the ihp can function as a usb mass storage device, meaning that any operating systems that can detect external hardisks can also see the ihp. and if it sees the ihp, drag the music files you want into the ihp and listen straight away. its that simple. almost every OS i know comes with some kind of file explorer and the decent ones can see external storage devices.

it's been pointed out that the iPod is also a mass storage device. really, it is.

1) open Explorer, transfer to iHP
2) open Ephpod, transfer to Ephpod/iTunes (iPod)

not much difference.

Quote:

for the ipod, you have to start the ephpod (which btw, IS 'additional software'. i.e. you cannot transfer music to ipod and listen to it natively like an ihp). and you have to figure if that version of ephpod will work with your OS or not.

iPod works with windows and Mac. what OS are you talking about?

Quote:

not very convenient i would say. no doubt it organises the music files into nice databases. but not everyone listens to music the same way. i have used the nomad zen before and i believe it offers some similar sort of music arrangement capabilities (i.e. by categories, search, etc). i, for one, prefers to use the file tree method over the db method because i usually listen by albums which are put into folders.

you can listen to albums on the iPod too. It's really cool. You go Browse > Albums.

Quote:

oh, and this reply is also directed at the 'ipod vs ihp: Loading and managing the music' thread, because, in all fairness, in terms of simplicity in loading music, without considering the preference or advantages for db or filetree mode, the ihp wins. why? as stated earlier, any OS that can see external storage will be able to transfer and play the music. using ephod, well, you have to use ephpod, which is also OS dependent.

the ihp wins, huh. I'm not exactley convinced from your argument there. how many OS's do you use in a typical day. or week. year. decade.

1) iPod. Drag and drop from Explorer to Ephpod or iTunes. DONE.

2) iHP. Drag and Drop from Explorer to iHP. But make sure to arrange the new music in some useful way, because you have to do that yourself. DONE.

 

[austonia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfen68 I'm mostly impartial...so don't hurt me.... ...but try getting your music off the ipod to a pc if itunes loaded it. Good Luck. That DRM feature really takes away from the coveted true "usb mass storage device".

I don't know about AAC's, but you can get any MP3's off the iPod with NO SOFTWARE

1) connect iPod to any PC.
2) Load file explorer, highlight iPod drive
3) Tools > Folder Options > View > Show hidden files and folders
4) go to iPod drive > select "iPod_Control" directory > select "Music" directory > wow there's all the directories where your music is stored.
5) Yes, they are named funny, but it doesn't matter, because they are tagged. in WinXP file explorer, use the right-hand side of your explorer window and you can see the Artist, Album, Track name, etc. * Look for the songs you want, and copy them to wherever else you want. You can use another program (like MP3 Tag/Studio) to rename them based on the ID3 tags if needed

* If you can't see that, then you don't have your explorer set up to view those details, but it's easy enough. Go to View > Choose Details

 

[DigDub]

Quote:

Originally Posted by austonia it's good that you know what a mass storage device is. the iPod is too. really. funny, I could swear this has allready been discussed in this very same thread. 1) open Explorer, transfer to iHP 2) open Ephpod, transfer to iPod whats the f'n difference?

what i'm talking about is transferring music files in the NATIVE file explorer and playing it back on the player. jesus! do you even know what i'm referring to? i know the ipod can be seen by the native file explorer. But can you transfer files and play it back direct on the ipod using the native explorer? i think not.


Quote:

What? iPod works with windows and Mac. what OS are you talking about? UNIX? yeah, sux for them. we cry. moving on.

how about the future? it does not take away the fact that ephpod will only work on some platforms, while the ihp is 'more compatible' with other OSes. i would say the ihp is more 'future proof' than ipod. even if iriver close shop, i can be assured that that i can still transfer and playback music files on my player through umb support. that can't be said of ephod if the development stops.


Quote:

well, guess what? you can listen to albums on the iPod too. It's really cool. You go Browse > Albums.

if you'd noticed, i did say i have the nomad zen and i pretty much preferred file tree playback than db playback, which are both available on the zen too. its my own preference, not saying that the ipod can't do it.


Quote:

the ihp wins, huh. I'm not exactley convinced from your argument there. how many OS's do you use in a typical day. or week. year. decade. 1) iPod. Drag and drop to Ephpod or iTunes. DONE. 2) iHP. Drag and Drop to iHP. But make sure to arrange the directories in some useful way. DONE. winner?

you know that using ephod creates another additional point of failure and that the built in file explorer would tend to be more stable than using a third party software, don't you?

i don't know what is wrong with you austonia, but you seem to use your 'experience' and 'authority' to put down and belittle those who think different and have different experiences from you. its always about ME, ME, ME. your reluctance to accept the obvious facts and constraints of the ipod is deplorable for a guy who owns an 'definitive URL' such as 'www.dapreview.com' and gives 'authorative' review on this forum. sorry, but i'm not a big fan or believer of your so-called 'authorative' comments and reviews.

edit: and the use of profanities is not going to make your arguments better.

 

[wolfen68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by austonia I don't know about AAC's, but you can get any MP3's off the iPod with NO SOFTWARE 1) connect iPod to any PC. 2) Load file explorer, highlight iPod drive 3) Tools > Folder Options > View > Show hidden files and folders 4) go to iPod drive > select "iPod_Control" directory > select "Music" directory > wow there's all the directories where your music is stored. 5) Yes, they are named funny, but it doesn't matter, because they are tagged. in WinXP file explorer, use the right-hand side of your explorer window and you can see the Artist, Album, Track name, etc. * Look for the songs you want, and copy them to wherever else you want. You can use another program (like MP3 Tag/Studio) to rename them based on the ID3 tags if needed * If you can't see that, then you don't have your explorer set up to view those details, but it's easy enough. Go to View > Choose Details

Here's my concern...

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69005

Why should I have to rename/retag/re-directory everything to restore it to the way it was? For 4000 songs, will this take 15 minutes? Four hours? All day? For that matter, I could just dink around with a creative product and try to restore the same jumbled up mess that ends up on my pc's harddrive.

There's a nice "safe feeling" simplicity of just dragging and dropping everything back to my pc in times of a data emergency. No alterations needed.

 

[austonia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfen68 Here's my concern... http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69005 Why should I have to rename/retag/re-directory everything to restore it to the way it was? For 4000 songs, will this take 15 minutes? Four hours? All day? For that matter, I could just dink around with a creative product and try to restore the same jumbled up mess that ends up on my pc's harddrive. There's a nice "safe feeling" simplicity of just dragging and dropping everything back to my pc in times of a data emergency. No alterations needed.

or you can just use Ephpod. highlight a track or selection of tracks in Ephpod, right click > Copy to PC (and then tell it what directory). Resulting file is Name - Track.mp3

by the way, if you need to batch rename or batch tag use MP3/Tag Studio. Can do thousands very quickly. Can create filenames from the ID3 tag data or vice versa.