[Tavilyn]

Hi again,
 
Don't worry. This thread won't be nearly as big and broad and complex as my last couple have been.
Title says it all, really. I find I really like my x2, with a couple of exceptions, and if I can get similar sound through closed cans I'd like to try, at least. If I was staying home all the time, the x2 would be fine. I do want to be able to travel with these things though, which means not necessarily blaring my music on the bus or in college.
I know open cans give more soundstage than closed ones, but I also know closed cans are coming along in their ability to depict soundstage. I want as much of this as I can get, but it's not my priority. My priority is in preserving the warm-bodied sound the x2 has; if the closed cans I found had just a touch more treble, I'd be even more pleased. For comparison, the HD598 and x2 both have just a bit too little, the Soundmagic HP200 has considerably too much. Maybe the gap between them is actually quite small and there'll be no pleasing me.
It should also be noted that I really hope to get something that doesn't need hard driving. More than ever this requires portability; I'm keeping my E10K I think, unless a unit of similar size and fairly similar price point would do the same job better.
Budget for the headphones themselves is between 300 and 500 Canadian dollars.
I have my eye on the P7 and the Nad Viso HP50, particularly the former. I don't know how the Sony MDR1A or Focal Spirit Pro would stack up, or if there are any models by Shure or anyone else that would fit.
As another point, I don't know if I have big ears or not. The x2 is snug but not painful, while the HD598 is quite roomy. Roomy can be bad though, as it lets your ears touch the drivers.
Anyway, thanks for your help, should you choose to recommend. I'm well aware that open cans are generally considered better at the same price point, and that most people who use open cans may not have a ton of experience with closed. Let's just see how it goes though.

 

[Youth]

I would try the P7

 

[serman005]

Do you have an opportunity to listen to any of these cans you are considering (the P7 or the Viso, eg)? Personally, I find it hard to know how well I'm going to like something unless and until I, myself, have actually heard them. I know that sometimes can be difficult to pull off. As I'm sure you know, amazon has a very liberal return policy--perhaps that is a route for you.

 

[Tavilyn]

That's what I've been doing so far. The P7 is out of stock temporarily in Canada via Amazon, mind you, and I've had my Fidelio X2s for about a week and a half. My worry is that I won't get to test the HP50 or the P7 before my window to return my other cans closes.
I've also been having a bit of trouble printing off the return labels, so the other three I've tried via Amazon so far still haven't been refunded yet. Even if the P7 was available, I wouldn't really have the financial freedom to pull the trigger. I'm just going to have to hope that something gives sooner rather than later; I'm not going to be horribly displeased if I end up with the X2, I'd just like to have at least the P7 and X2 at the same time in case I get everything I want from the P7 and want to send the open cans back.
Ah well. I suppose if push really comes to shove and I love the p7 but can't return the x2 via Amazon, I can always try and sell it. I'll take a loss, but not a huge one.

 

[jodgey4]

I've heard the P7, HP50, and X1. The P7 has closer sounding bass (less textured, more bloated) and similar treble though with more clarity creating less of a veil (lots to do with lower treble there). The HP50 is beautiful, very natural treble, not bright though. I'd also consider the PSB M4U1 for a more neutral option to the HP50, and the B&O H6 as another beautiful can - my top recommendation. I've heard those two too, including the HD598's (no Sony or FSP) so feel free to ask questions. My only reservation about the cans mentioned would be comfort, I think I remember them having smaller cups.

 

[Tavilyn]

Hi there. This helps a fair bit.
I like a slightly warmer sound with just a bit of a bass tilt. The x2's bass is a bit better than the x1, from what most reviewers say, and I don't think I'd want a whole lot more than this. Comparatively, I wouldn't want anything at all less than the HD598, and more than HD598 would be better. Treble on the HD598 and x2 are not inadequate; I'd never call them that. At worst, they're a little underwhelming, but only a little.
That said, the BH6 seems more neutral, and I don't know if either it, the PSB model mentioned or the HP50 will have the bass punch I'm after.
If by bloated you mean that P7's bass will be sorta smeared all over everything else, kind of like a classier rendition of Beats/Monster headphones, then...that might be a deal-breaker. I have a pair of Monster something-or-others, given to me as a gift two years ago, and I can't listen to them.
What the heck is RoomFeel technology? Is it nothing more than a buzzword, or is it just shorthand for engineering that actually works? I wouldn't want to bank something on this RoomFeel thing only for it to turn out like blast processing. If you're not aware, blast processing was a marketing gimmick in the video game console industry in the early 1990s; Sega claimed the Genesis had "blast processing" when its rival did not. The actual term means nothing at all. I'm sure RoomFeel means something, but short of demoing these or having someone explain a bit I'd have no idea what it is.

 

[jodgey4]

RoomFeel is not DSP, it's how the cans are tuned to the HK studies, really cool stuff, probably the most natural and neutral responses possible. It's a little warmer than past studies. The X2 probably isn't far off.

Also, I've noticed I'm just about the only critic of the X1 and P7 bass being bloated... I guess I'm hyper sensitive to it (and admittedly I can't stand it! ). The P7 would probably have the punch you want. If you're in the USA, check for a Best Buy with a Magnolia Home Theatre section, they have many cans there including the H6 and P7 (the three I've been into had the same cans available). Everything I've mentioned has more bass than the HD598, due to better sub bass. Mid bass is all about the same. You've picked all warm and close to neutral cans. You really can't go wrong!

 

[cel4145]

For portability, you might look at IEMs. There are some excellent IEMs out there. Easy to carry on the bus, and many of them have very good isolation (good for college). Check out this list of reviews. Perhaps something will grab your attention

http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-333-iems-compared-ubsound-fighter-added-02-21-15-p-1039

 

[Tavilyn]

Yeah, that's the idea. I don't want a steep V-curve, I don't want bombastic in-your-face bass, and I don't want hot treble so sharp your ears ring.
If the M4U1 headphones aren't bass-light, are better than the 598s, then they might be worth a listen. Sadly, I'm in Canada, not the US; I'm going to have to do some more auditioning, it seems.
I suppose the x2's bass isn't for everyone. Reviews pretty much unanimously say the x2's bass is better (nicer, less bloated) than the x1.
Thanks for the clarification on RoomFeel. I'd hate to think it was some sort of active technology really screwing with the sound. If it's just the design rather than anything active, that's good.
Have had a look at some reviews of the M4U since last I wrote here. No one seems to hate them, a few say they're ugly and uncomfortable though. I take talk of comfort with a grain of salt, but as far as pretty goes, I couldn't care less. I want it to sound good, and since we're talking closed cans here, I'm hoping they don't leak too much. A little at higher volume is pretty much unavoidable, but if they're sharing my music like an open-back would, I might as well stick to the x2.

 

[Tavilyn]

IEMs are something I may have an issue with. Maybe I'd just have to get used to it, but I dislike having things actually inside my ears, and I know some IEMs have to get in fairly far in order to create a seal. It's something I may investigate, but I think I'm going to try for a closed can first. I'm not too worried about portability (as in, it doesn't have to be tiny or able to fold), as I'll probably be largely putting these in a small backpack with a laptop and stuff while on the move. The x2 doesn't lose points because it's big, it's more because it's open than anything else. I looked into open cans rather relentlessly at first, because I thought the sound leakage was something that could be dealt with. It's...probably not quite so easy, or most of us would have 'em. Heh.

 

[Tavilyn]

Have just seen Blue Mo-Fi for the first time. Headphone+amp with good sound for basically the same price as the P7 and PSB M4U1? Forgive me, but those things combined with not seeing it mentioned even once before I read the Wirecutter article that loved it, make me wonder.
Should these be on my radar as a closed can, or is the built-in amp sort of a way to make a set of cans that sound like two hundred bucks into a set of cans that will cost nearly twice that? I haven't seen a truly bad review yet.

 

[jodgey4]

I'd probably look over them, a trusted audiophile friend of mine said they were 'lackluster', and the amp really didn't help much (and you have to pay for it no matter what). He preferred his HD598's, which he didn't even like that much. That being said, they might actually be pretty easy to audition which could prove to be a great use of time. Blue has a large distribution chain from what I've seen.

 

[Tavilyn]

I'm getting a chance to audition the PS M4U1 and the B and O H6. I may come home with one of them.

 

[jodgey4]

Try and bring a familiar source + music you know, maybe your X2's for reference.

 

[Tavilyn]

Hi there,
Well, I should've brought my x2, but I didn't think of that. I've just come back, and I have to say I'm kind of floored.
I was expecting the PSB to blow me away. People really do seem to love it. I didn't hate it, not by any means, but I also didn't like it near as much as I thought. The extension was decent, bass seemed good, mids were pretty crisp, treble was good but not absolutely top-notch. Nothing to really complain about.
Then I put on the H6, and given that I like a little more bass and was expecting the H6 to have issues there, I got a shock. It's not thunderous or boomy or anything, but it actually seemed, if nothing else, to be clearer. Bass was more "there" than with the PSB, even if there might have been less actual emphasis on it. I don't know really how to explain myself well here, as I'm not as conversant with some of these audiophile terms as others.
Rather than lament my lack of an x2 to test against, what I most regret is that I wasn't able to test the sort of music I'm used to. The closest I got was "Long Time Coming" by Tragically Hip. Good tune, and I like that genre, but it's not exactly demanding in lower registers. The only other songs I heard were jazz, for which I hear the H6 has a fondness.
Both headphones sounded good. Both had little drawbacks overall, and I walked out of the store empty-handed. Now more than ever, I think I need to see the P7 next to these to see where I really want to go.
The PSB felt like I had a speaker on either side of my head, close enough that its sound was flat and created a sort of "facial awareness" echo. If you put your hand up toward your face and then talk, you will hear your voice reflected off your hand; if you move it to the side, you will hear that little dead spot in your ear as the sound bounces on or around it. The PSB created this effect with the side of my head - or purported to, since obviously the earcups are sealed and it doesn't have my head itself as a reference. This is a great idea in theory, but what happens is that the space above and between your ears, or in front of your face, seems to suffer for it. The soundstage ends up being halved, but not purely; a headphone that cut out the center of the soundstage would rightly be thrown on the junkheap. These just disoriented me, since it actually sounded like two speakers rather than a cohesive soundstage. This alone would not have been a deal-breaker. The earcups are also a weird shape, and I found them quite snug. I don't know if this means I have big ears, but I feel like you could nearly get the PSB earcup inside an HD598 earcup's inner shell. That's a slight exaggeration, but the space around my ear between those two cans was night and day; I suppose this is part and parcel of closed cans. Again, not a deal-breaker by itself. They feel heavy, boxy and plastic; solid build, and the yield on the foam is nice for now. I could see that foam burning in really, really fast though. All of these things combined don't make this a bad set of cans, in my eyes, but they give me serious reservations. I strongly suspect that if I put on something mean and cranked them up, I'd stop worrying about that odd speakery effect and would be able to appreciate better.
The H6, by comparison, looked light enough to crush. It's not, but in my hand it feels much less substantial, so to speak. Nice finish on the backs of the earcups though, and the leather is creamy soft on the cups while being kind of rough and rugged on the headband. That headband is not wickedly comfortable either, I'm afraid. Not a complete turn-off, but a small niggle especially considering the price point. Circular earcups feel small, and while they don't pinch my ear, I could seriously almost wear these as on-ears if I was gentle. The way these slide bigger or smaller feels odd, like I'm having to really coax the unit to stretch; this is probably intentional and will also probably mean that once a head size is established it'll stay that way. Regarding the sound though, I was pleasantly surprised. It's big! Treble is more present than in the M4U1, mids are a touch more distant but more resolved, and the bass actually appears to dig a little deeper. I didn't hear any good drum kicks and low sub-bass though, just low piano, some low guitar/bass guitar and electric or stand-up string bass. The bass-drum kicks I heard are naturally from a taut head and had no boom, so perhaps anything thunderous through these cans would have a considerable roll-off and not have that slam I like. That's a reservation, but again, it's not a deal-breaker.
The store I visited has a no-returns policy. You can exchange for merchandise of equal value, but you can't just give it back and get your money back. The M4U1 was $300 and the H6 was $450.
I felt like there was no clear winner here, and I had enough reservations about both pairs that I want to hear the P7 to further refine what I'm after. I imagine the Nad Viso is going to be a lot like the M4U1, so I can probably be safe with that one.
Writing this makes me feel extremely spoiled and picky both. Neither of these headphones is bad. I've made the PSB sound strange and the H6 uncertain. I've talked about the comfort of smallish-seeming earcups. I don't know if I'm expecting too much, or if I'm just going to have to be an open-cans guy. I still do want to try the P7, see if I like them well enough to pounce on them.
If you guys have any other suggestions or feedback, I'd welcome it. I apologize for the negativity and nitpicking, but this is what I do when I hear headphones. Without taking them home to play with for days on end, I don't really get a full picture; as such, take the above with a grain of salt, because either or both of these cans might sound lovely for my purposes if I put them through their paces more appropriately.