[martel80]

Sorry, i'm tired, i forgot to specify what i was talking about. Let me rephrase...

Speaking of which, do you know if the DA conversion to the speakers of the monitor/XLR output within a typical interface (i.e. my Antelope) generally uses the same DAC as the headphone output? Or are they usually different the monitor output and HP outputs using their own separate DACs?

If they are the same DAC, then i might as well just get a headphone amp (instead of a DAC-amp), because the DAC for my speakers interface's monitor output seems quite good, and if that's what's getting used for the headphones what the headphone output is using too then that's good enough for me.

You very rarely see two separate DACs in audio interfaces.

On the Discrete 4 Pro Spec pages, they don't mention seperate DACs.

The ones that I'm aware of that have separate DAC are the RME Fireface, Babyface and ADI-2. The later being their Mastering grade DACs.

 

[Barncore]

You very rarely see two separate DACs in audio interfaces.

On the Discrete 4 Pro Spec pages, they don't mention seperate DACs.



The ones that I'm aware of that have separate DAC are the RME Fireface, Babyface and ADI-2. The later being their Mastering grade DACs.

Gotcha.

Ok so now that that's out the way, going back to our previous conversation... Why do you insist on saving up more money for the A70 over the A30? Just out of curiosity. A30 is more than enough power for the Hifiman planars right? In fact the A30 itself is probably overkill, from what I can tell numbers wise.
More power doesn't mean better sound though right? Having more power than needed won't make it sound better.
That's what someone over at ASR told me anyway.

Is there some other essential advantage to the A70 over the A30 outside of more power?

Why not suggest the Topping L30 II if transparent power is the goal?

 

[martel80]

Gotcha.

Ok so now that that's out the way, going back to our previous conversation... Why do you insist on saving up more money for the A70 over the A30? Just out of curiosity. A30 is more than enough power for the Hifiman planars right? In fact the A30 itself is probably overkill, from what I can tell numbers wise.
More power doesn't mean better sound though right? Having more power than needed won't make it sound better.
That's what someone over at ASR told me anyway.

Is there some other essential advantage to the A70 over the A30 outside of more power?

Why not suggest the Topping L30 II if transparent power is the goal?

My thought process over the years have changed from, ''let's get what I think is needed and don't overshoot for extra'' to ''let's get what will overkill what I really need in case I decide to get something else that might require that ''extra'' I'm currently overlooking''.

A good example of that have been my Studio Monitors path. Started over two decades ago on Gennies 1031 in a professional studio to get myself a set of Behringer B2031 for my house. My mix was all over the place when I was working home and had to cross reference all the time on supposedly way less proficient system. I won't go step by step about my whole path but the point I'm trying to put across is, today, you're here on Head-fi talking about an affordable amp to feed your tiny GAS for something that will bring very small improvement compared to what's possibly achievable if planed on long term. ''Tomorrow'', you'll turn around and realize that you spent 400$ on something that is not worth 100$ anymore and it's way under-built for what's needed at your present moment. While I love my Nano's I know for a fact that there's way better built out there and the Nano's are just momentarily helping me reconciliate with the idea that Headphone can be proficient too if used in a correct manner.

So to come back to your question, my idea is that (and thats only my POV that nobody need to share) , If the L70 pro is borderline capable if you , one day, want to upgrade to a power hungry set of cans, why not invest the extra 300$ and make sure you have your base covered ? Cause lets be honest, the technology will evolve but given the specs of those devices, other then the power that will most probably always be a thing that some cans demand, you will never hear a -140 db noise floor nor will you ever notice a -120db crosstalk nor will you ever hear over 100 db of dynamic range. All of that is just way pass human hearing capacity.

So other then going electrostatic with a completely different type of power amp, I don't see you EVER retiring an A70 pro and it's 17W per channel at 16 ohm if you stay in the current state of devices that are available to us ( again, except electrostatic and a very VERY few Monsters out there ) .

In the end, it's your money and you do whatever you want with it but I personally prefer to stay put and not jump on a set of Audeze LCD-X just because it's the next baby step-up in my personal preference book and wait to get what I really need and be over with it. Just like I did with my Lipinski L-707 a few years ago and my Rythmik F12 this year.

I'm done buying 4 years crap and jumping into the next hype train over and over again.

EDIT: just look at what use to be considered the reliable workhorse for mids , the HD650. It appeared in 2003 and just recently been retired as what's best at what it does. That's almost a 20 years life span. And those example goes on and on.

 

[TheR0v3r]

Gotcha.

Ok so now that that's out the way, going back to our previous conversation... Why do you insist on saving up more money for the A70 over the A30? Just out of curiosity. A30 is more than enough power for the Hifiman planars right? In fact the A30 itself is probably overkill, from what I can tell numbers wise.
More power doesn't mean better sound though right? Having more power than needed won't make it sound better.
That's what someone over at ASR told me anyway.

Is there some other essential advantage to the A70 over the A30 outside of more power?

Why not suggest the Topping L30 II if transparent power is the goal?

The Chord Mojo 2 works really well and has transparent DSP onboard with four EQ options (shelving).

 

[Barncore]

My thought process over the years have changed from, ''let's get what I think is needed and don't overshoot for extra'' to ''let's get what will overkill what I really need in case I decide to get something else that might require that ''extra'' I'm currently overlooking''.

A good example of that have been my Studio Monitors path. Started over two decades ago on Gennies 1031 in a professional studio to get myself a set of Behringer B2031 for my house. My mix was all over the place when I was working home and had to cross reference all the time on supposedly way less proficient system. I won't go step by step about my whole path but the point I'm trying to put across is, today, you're here on Head-fi talking about an affordable amp to feed your tiny GAS for something that will bring very small improvement compared to what's possibly achievable if planed on long term. ''Tomorrow'', you'll turn around and realize that you spent 400$ on something that is not worth 100$ anymore and it's way under-built for what's needed at your present moment. While I love my Nano's I know for a fact that there's way better built out there and the Nano's are just momentarily helping me reconciliate with the idea that Headphone can be proficient too if used in a correct manner.

So to come back to your question, my idea is that (and thats only my POV that nobody need to share) , If the L70 pro is borderline capable if you , one day, want to upgrade to a power hungry set of cans, why not invest the extra 300$ and make sure you have your base covered ? Cause lets be honest, the technology will evolve but given the specs of those devices, other then the power that will most probably always be a thing that some cans demand, you will never hear a -140 db noise floor nor will you ever notice a -120db crosstalk nor will you ever hear over 100 db of dynamic range. All of that is just way pass human hearing capacity.

So other then going electrostatic with a completely different type of power amp, I don't see you EVER retiring an A70 pro and it's 17W per channel at 16 ohm if you stay in the current state of devices that are available to us ( again, except electrostatic and a very VERY few Monsters out there ) .

In the end, it's your money and you do whatever you want with it but I personally prefer to stay put and not jump on a set of Audeze LCD-X just because it's the next baby step-up in my personal preference book and wait to get what I really need and be over with it. Just like I did with my Lipinski L-707 a few years ago and my Rythmik F12 this year.

I'm done buying 4 years crap and jumping into the next hype train over and over again.

EDIT: just look at what use to be considered the reliable workhorse for mids , the HD650. It appeared in 2003 and just recently been retired as what's best at what it does. That's almost a 20 years life span. And those example goes on and on.

I get your point, and i feel the same way, but the L30 ii has 3.5w x2 @16ohm, which is more than enough to power any of the "end game" Hifiman planars i would've thought. Right? It also has the cleanest signal measured on ASR yet and it's also one of the least expensive HP amps out there. Given that it's only a tiny investment, i don't think it's a big deal if i decide to upgrade at some point in 3+ years or something. Given the L3ii is $150 USD, that's only $50 per year that i'd have lost. That's worth it.

To me, it's just as smart not to overpay for overkill as it is to pay extra for future-proofed end-game devices. There's plenty of gear that i've bought over the years that has all these features i never use. It goes both ways.

Audiophile world is a real rabbit hole that i don't plan on sinking too much money into. I could spend an extra $1,000 per year to find my perfect DAC/amp/headphone combo, or i could just secure great monitoring now and to move on with improving my craft.

Learning and internalizing how your headphone setup sounds is arguably more important than buying the best of the best stuff anyway really. E.g. Andrew Schepps still mixes on those basic/common Sony MDR headphones, because he's familiar with them. Glenn Schick used to master on IEM's for like 5 years, pop artists too, not small time stuff.

One day i'll probably spend like $5k+ on a state of the art AD/DA converter like a Lynx Hilo or an Apogee or an RME or something, but today isn't that day, so an A30 wouldn't be an end-game device in my setup any more than a L30ii would anyway i don't think. Right now the goal is to find the best bang for buck that matches well with Hifiman planars

The Chord Mojo 2 works really well and has transparent DSP onboard with four EQ options (shelving).

Yeah came across that one yesterday. Seems really great, and love the portability, but the price is over double what i'm willing to pay right now

 

[martel80]

I get your point, and i feel the same way, but the L30 ii has 3.5w x2 @16ohm, which is more than enough to power any of the "end game" Hifiman planars i would've thought. Right? It also has the cleanest signal measured on ASR yet and it's also one of the least expensive HP amps out there. Given that it's only a tiny investment, i don't think it's a big deal if i decide to upgrade at some point in 3+ years or something. Given the L3ii is $150 USD, that's only $50 per year that i'd have lost. That's worth it.

To me, it's just as smart not to overpay for overkill as it is to pay extra for future-proofed end-game devices. There's plenty of gear that i've bought over the years that has all these features i never use. It goes both ways.

Audiophile world is a real rabbit hole that i don't plan on sinking too much money into. I could spend an extra $1,000 per year to find my perfect DAC/amp/headphone combo, or i could just secure great monitoring now and to move on with improving my craft.

Learning and internalizing how your headphone setup sounds is arguably more important than buying the best of the best stuff anyway really. E.g. Andrew Schepps still mixes on those basic/common Sony MDR headphones, because he's familiar with them. Glenn Schick used to master on IEM's for like 5 years, pop artists too, not small time stuff.

One day i'll probably spend like $5k+ on a state of the art AD/DA converter like a Lynx Hilo or an Apogee or an RME or something, but today isn't that day, so an A30 wouldn't be an end-game device in my setup any more than a L30ii would anyway i don't think. Right now the goal is to find the best bang for buck that matches well with Hifiman planars


Yeah came across that one yesterday. Seems really great, and love the portability, but the price is over double what i'm willing to pay right now

Yeah, that make sense .

Just so you know, 3.5w won’t be enough for the HE6 line or the Susvara but you are correct, it would be plenty enough for the rest. I still think all their amp lineup are good so whichever you chose, I think it’ll be great and accomplish what you want to confirm about headphones power requirements.

Rover’s suggestion also seem to be another nice little toy. Worth checking out imo. But there’s also a DAC in it so you might need to check if it can be run in serial like the toppings and if there’s a true bypass for your monitors. Unless you have 2 set of stereo outputs on your antelope obviously.