Intermittent mains hum is driving me nuts
Jan 26, 2010 at 1:24 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 26

TheAttorney

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Most mains transformers hum to some extent. And most of the time, there is no problem for me.

But occasionally, some of my electrical appliances “buzz” dramatically louder than normal. My first guess is that it’s just a peak loading issue, but my observations below don’t entirely correlate to that. I’ve gone months without this happening, but, more recently, it’s been happening 2-3 times a week.

So any ideas of what kind of loading/noise/distortion may be causing this? Also, what differentiates the transformer design of the appliances which are more susceptible?

Here are my notes so far:

1.It affects just my plasma screen in the living room, microwave in the kitchen and clock/radio in the bedroom, each on a different ring main, connected to the common distribution box for the incoming mains.

2.Each of these appliances has an above average hum all the time, but occasionally, the problem starts and stops like an on/off switch: From gentle hum to irritating buzz in an instant. When I notice it on one of the three appliances, it is always present on the other two. When the buzz problem is occurring, it remains there, in reduced volume, even when the appliance is in standby mode.

3.My Plasma screen is connected via a Belkin filter/suppressor strip, which has no affect on the buzz. When I added my high end Audience capacitor-based power conditioner in series, it had no affect on the buzz. In fact, the conditioner itself buzzes very quietly under these conditions, even though it is purely passive, with no transformers that I’m aware of. It’s usually 100% silent. I've read that regenerators, like the PS Audio PPP, may help, but I don't want to go down that particular path.

4.My mains voltage typically fluctuates between around 233 and 242 volts. There is a limited correlation between voltage and time of day, but absolutely no correlation between voltage and the buzz.

5.It is more likely to happen in the evenings, but that could be because that’s when I’m most likely to be watching TV. Of the times I’ve been around at the start and stop times, there’s nothing consistent with the timing, but when the buzz does start, it often, not always, lasts for most of the evening. There’s no difference between weekends and week days.

6.I live in a small village, miles from any city or industrial area.
 
Jan 26, 2010 at 2:33 PM Post #3 of 26
It's a good idea, but I don't have any dimmers, and I've looked around what else may have this affect and I'm pretty sure that the cause does not originate from any other item from within the house.
 
Jan 26, 2010 at 2:42 PM Post #4 of 26
If you are in an apartment (or whatever you brits call places with lots of units in them :p) Maybe the source of the noise is from a neighbours appliance. Think of items with large motors in them. Vacuums, Fans, etc.

Or it could come from the blower fan in your place. Does it seem to come and go with the heat?
 
Jan 26, 2010 at 4:12 PM Post #5 of 26
Apartment or flat are equally valid terms here, but no, I live in a detached house. As far as I know, none of the neighbours share the same incoming cable, which goes underground presumably to some distribution point somewhere underground.

I'm sure it's no other thing from my place, as I've checked all the fridges, central heating pumps etc. I was wondering about the power supply company - whether they sometimes do something different, like switch in something extra at main or sub stations?
 
Jan 26, 2010 at 6:01 PM Post #7 of 26
The Humbuster certainly looks interesting - I'll investigate further. What's also interesting is that the specific problem that it solves is DC voltage on the mains. If that really is the case, then I'd rather the power company sorted the root cause by improving their tolerances or whatever. Is there a safe way of confirming or measuring that DC level is present? My measuring equipment doesn't extend beyond a digital multimeter.
 
Jan 26, 2010 at 6:31 PM Post #8 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAttorney /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The Humbuster certainly looks interesting - I'll investigate further. What's also interesting is that the specific problem that it solves is DC voltage on the mains. If that really is the case, then I'd rather the power company sorted the root cause by improving their tolerances or whatever. Is there a safe way of confirming or measuring that DC level is present? My measuring equipment doesn't extend beyond a digital multimeter.


Yeah use your DMM in DC mode. If it is anything but 0V then you have DC offset on your line. I would be shocked if you read any significant DC on the line cause your house voltage should be coming through a step down transformer pretty close to the house and the very nature of how a transformer works prevents any DC from passing through.

The noise you hear is most likely the 50hz hum caused by the AC (I say 50hz because you are in UK which uses 50hz instead of 60hz the US uses). That freq. can induce noise in other items too.

Now another source of the problem could be from a nearby HAM operator. You have any of those guys in the area, easy to spot by the large antenna in the yard.

You seem very confident the noise is originating in your house, why is this? When I state that it could be cause by you HVAC motor, I am not saying that you actually are hearing the motor, but that the motor is inducing a noise that is being heard from another device.
 
Jan 26, 2010 at 6:37 PM Post #9 of 26
I would guess it could be a refrigerator or freezer kicking in and out dependent on temperature polluting your electrical system. Shot in the dark.
ETA now I see that you've checked that out so ??
 
Jan 26, 2010 at 8:23 PM Post #10 of 26
Thanks guys for the help. I've learned a few things. I'm still not quite sure what a HVAC motor is (even after a quick google), but I don't think I have one in the house.
I'm going to try measuring the DC voltage before/during the buzz next occurs. It may be some time, because the only thing I can guarantee with this problem is that it never happens when I'm waiting for it. I think this is known as Murphy's Law - a proven scientific fact!
 
Jan 26, 2010 at 8:29 PM Post #11 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAttorney /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Thanks guys for the help. I've learned a few things. I'm still not quite sure what a HVAC motor is (even after a quick google), but I don't think I have one in the house.
I'm going to try measuring the DC voltage before/during the buzz next occurs. It may be some time, because the only thing I can guarantee with this problem is that it never happens when I'm waiting for it. I think this is known as Murphy's Law - a proven scientific fact!



HVAC motor ie blower fan motor. People have other names for it I am sure. Anyhow you may or may not have this. What type of heat do you have? If it is forced air via a Heat Pump, Gas, or Oil then you have one. Forced air being the key here, if you have radiate heat ie those big ugly radiates or baseboard heat then you would not have a blower fan motor. I would guess most homes built in the last 30-40 years would have some type of forced air heating.
 
Jan 26, 2010 at 9:43 PM Post #12 of 26
Well, I learn something new every minute on this forum. In the UK, the majority of central heating systems, as in my home, use radiators, with water moved round a network of copper pipe by an electric pump. The water is typically heated by gas or oil burners. There is a significant minority of systems, usually in apartments, that use electric storage radiators, or just simple electric radiators. A very small trendy minority use underfloor heating pipes. I had no idea that air blown systems are the norm elsewhere.
 
Jan 26, 2010 at 10:13 PM Post #13 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAttorney /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well, I learn something new every minute on this forum. In the UK, the majority of central heating systems, as in my home, use radiators, with water moved round a network of copper pipe by an electric pump. The water is typically heated by gas or oil burners. There is a significant minority of systems, usually in apartments, that use electric storage radiators, or just simple electric radiators. A very small trendy minority use underfloor heating pipes. I had no idea that air blown systems are the norm elsewhere.


In the middle part of America I would say the majority use forced-air in any modern construction.

Now if you house is on Oil, the oil burners require a pretty high voltage transformer (if memory serves me correctly on the order of 10,000 V or more on the secondaries). This transformer is used to basically provide the ignition for the oil burner and depending on how it is grounded and shielded can play havoc with electronics. It is easy to rule this out, see if the noise comes and goes with the furnace running or not.
 
Jan 26, 2010 at 11:18 PM Post #14 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAttorney /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I had no idea that air blown systems are the norm elsewhere.


As a Brit in the USA, blown air systems rock, they are very fast to deliver hotness (or coldness if you have an air conditioning/heating combined system as we do), no sitting around shivering for 30 mins while the radiator warms up, great, until you get the electricty/gas bill
frown.gif
 
Jan 26, 2010 at 11:59 PM Post #15 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAttorney /img/forum/go_quote.gif
What's also interesting is that the specific problem that it solves is DC voltage on the mains. If that really is the case, then I'd rather the power company sorted the root cause by improving their tolerances or whatever.


That's not really something that can be "fixed" short of putting a voltage isolation transformer at every outlet. The DC offsets are typically a result of the loads placed at the end (ie on the consumer), which the power company doesn't control.
 

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