[DaveBSC]

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x2 on the SACD.  What kills me a bit is that there is no way to digitally rip from my own SACDs' 24/96 DSD stream into FLACs to play on my HiFiMAN on the go.  That is simply ridiculous.  

I'm not a fan of SACD at all. There are arguments to be made that pulse density is superior to pulse code, but FAR too many SACDs were produced from PCM recordings, and that conversion eliminated any advantages that PDM might have. I would assume that trying to rip and convert SACD to FLAC would cause the same problems if it was possible to do. DVD-A is marginally more practical which makes it a bit better, but there's still no real reason for it to exist. Pulling data off of a spinning disc in real time is an archaic idea. It's the Edison wax cylinder, just in an updated form. We need to get past that.
 
Computers and music servers are the way to go, especially now that solid state hard drives are becoming more reasonably priced. Keep your SACDs, I'd rather have something like Reference Recording's 24/176 files where I can play them natively on my computer through any DAC I want, rather than being locked in to HDMI and a receiver or SSP, and convert them to whatever format I choose so I can play them on any system I wish. They're mine, I should be able to make those choices. Buying SACDs and DVD-As is supporting the draconian copy protection systems that ultimately caused the downfall of both systems.

 

[warp08]

I agree, but aside from HDTracks.com and the B&W Society of Sound subscription I have a very hard time finding hi-res downloadable content with a decent selection even at 24/96, much less at higher resolution.
 
If someone is aware of alternatives, I'm open to suggestions.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

I agree, but aside from HDTracks.com and the B&W Society of Sound subscription I have a very hard time finding hi-res downloadable content with a decent selection even at 24/96, much less at higher resolution.
 
If someone is aware of alternatives, I'm open to suggestions.

This is the problem. The high-res content just isn't out there, because everything is still released at 16/44 so it can fit on ye olde CD, an ancient format with a laughable maximum capacity considering what Blu-ray can fit into the same 5". The fact that we're still listening to CDs is essentially the same as if we were all still watching movies on LaserDisc. The CD is only a few years younger than that format.
 
What I think would've worked is a dual layer disc somewhat like SACD but using PCM for high res that would be readable on existing red book players, could be ripped to FLAC, ALAC, etc, and could output high-res over standard S/Pdif. That would make pretty much everyone happy, and maybe could've saved record stores. At this point its too late for any new disc based format.

 

[kboe]

I must be the rotten egg in this bunch because I actually find the HiRez recordings to be too fatiguing on my ears, if that makes any sense. CDs sound much more listenable to my non-sensical ears. But that's just me, but I do agree that HiRez is the future and should eventually be adopted by the industry. The problem is that the average consumer, (meaning not us) would not net any benefits through their earbuds or crappy speakers. So what's in it for the industry?

 

[warp08]

It's mostly a matter of the recording and mastering technique being used.  I've listened to a few poorly mastered SACDs, but in general, I would say that the overwhelming majority of SACD-recorded content out there are vastly superior to their regular CD-based versions.  
 
But, hey, what about the content?  Surely, it has its own limitations.  Would anyone go for the limited edition SACD Gold Master Justin Bleber album to test your O2's frequency response?  It would be the equivalent of an $10 earbud 

 

[Caesar2010]

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It would be a different story if the owner of the car spent $5000 on spark plug leads and then told everyone it went 50 mph faster.

Audio is intangible.  It is an experience.  It is one of a few products that is similar to a service.  Is $5K spent on a trip to Europe bring that much more pleasure than a  few bucks spent on going to a local park?  It depends on the experience.  Also, of course, the law of diminishing returns comes to play.  The first $5K spent gets you much more than the last $5K.  However, most people lack the most basic understanding of economics and poo poo the entire industry.
 
People are free to choose and decide. 
 
Unfortunately, most of the public is not aware of the pleasure a quality audio experience can bring.  People always gravitate to the big visual - the giant colorful TV. The big video stores, if they were smart, would do a better job of exposing the customer to the audio part of the movie experience.  (And sell more home theaters!) The music stores would have a quality audio setup where people can hear high quality sound and possibly plug their iPods into to get exposure to what they could be missing.  There is a key missing in the way customer can get to hear high quality sound, and unfortunately, no one has really stepped in to bridge the gap and take advantage of the business opportunity.
 

 

[tohenk2]

Quote:

I must be the rotten egg in this bunch because I actually find the HiRez recordings to be too fatiguing on my ears, if that makes any sense. CDs sound much more listenable to my non-sensical ears. But that's just me, but I do agree that HiRez is the future and should eventually be adopted by the industry. The problem is that the average consumer, (meaning not us) would not net any benefits through their earbuds or crappy speakers. So what's in it for the industry?

Well - you are not the only one. Some people say Vinyl is superior (but only on good hardware). I have a friend (who lives about 500m away) with a high-end set. And his wife thinks the sound is beautifull - but so involving that it is virtualy impossible for her to use it as background music. So she wants a second setup she can listen to all day! 
So - not only crappy speakers are to blame, but also listening habbits. Known artefacts (mp3), background music, (think "elevator music" or music while you shop, filmscores etc.) it all combines to something that is not an unique expierence anymore. There is a saying here "alle dagen kermis is niet leuk meer" - roughly translated "Going to a fair every day is no fun anymore".
 
It is comparable to reading in a way I think - many people can read, but only a percentage of those (1 out of 10?) actualy read books on a regular basis to relax. We might well listen in a different way, or value what we hear in a different way.
 
As to what is in it for the industry - that would depend on the salesfigures I guess. Why would you sell a plastic bucket with a decoration of Toy Story? A plain black one will do the same job...

 

[ford2]

 
Quote:

Audio is intangible.  It is an experience.  It is one of a few products that is similar to a service.  Is $5K spent on a trip to Europe bring that much more pleasure than a  few bucks spent on going to a local park?  It depends on the experience.  Also, of course, the law of diminishing returns comes to play.  The first $5K spent gets you much more than the last $5K.  However, most people lack the most basic understanding of economics and poo poo the entire industry.
 
People are free to choose and decide. 
 
Unfortunately, most of the public is not aware of the pleasure a quality audio experience can bring.  People always gravitate to the big visual - the giant colorful TV. The big video stores, if they were smart, would do a better job of exposing the customer to the audio part of the movie experience.  (And sell more home theaters!) The music stores would have a quality audio setup where people can hear high quality sound and possibly plug their iPods into to get exposure to what they could be missing.  There is a key missing in the way customer can get to hear high quality sound, and unfortunately, no one has really stepped in to bridge the gap and take advantage of the business opportunity.
 

I think you will find that the Public is all to aware of the treats that decent audio/visual experiences can bring,and they are well aware of the cost involved in such systems.
 
I for one find that most BD audio tracks are not of a very high standard and seem limited to rain/thunderstorms and helicopters,with the occasional car door slamming,all at 20db above the rest of the tracks.
 
The majority of people find it hard to meet ends as it is without the need for perceived better sound.
 
As to your comment about the key being able to hear HQ sound go tell it to all the HI-Fi store owners who have gone bust in the last 10 years because they were priced out of the market
.
And to top it off a well thought out lower end system(Gee I hate that why not be honest and say CHEAP)in the right room placement can to the untrained ear sound BETTER than all that high end(sorry should have said Expensive}gear.

 

[tohenk2]

 
Quote:

 


I think you will find that the Public is all to aware of the treats that decent audio/visual experiences can bring,and they are well aware of the cost involved in such systems.
 
I for one find that most BD audio tracks are not of a very high standard and seem limited to rain/thunderstorms and helicopters,with the occasional car door slamming,all at 20db above the rest of the tracks.
 
The majority of people find it hard to meet ends as it is without the need for perceived better sound.
 
As to your comment about the key being able to hear HQ sound go tell it to all the HI-Fi store owners who have gone bust in the last 10 years because they were priced out of the market
.
And to top it off a well thought out lower end system(Gee I hate that why not be honest and say CHEAP)in the right room placement can to the untrained ear sound BETTER than all that high end(sorry should have said Expensive}gear.

x2 to make ends meet, and subsequentially Hi-Fi stores going bust.
 
But on the cheap being automatically low end, and expensive being automatically high-end... I do not think so. (There are many examples to show that sometimes things are overpriced and sometimes things are real bargains. But then again, try saying that to somebody in a third world country who really has nothing - shows that "expensive" is just relative does it not?) And as you said it is a sum, placement being one of them. Of course with headphones placement does seem to be less of an issue (but still is, just as is fit and comfort, think weight, sweaty plastic or velours covers etc.)
 
And on the Public being aware - I don't know. And for caring about the treats of audio-only high-end? I do think people like music, I just think it is becoming more normal and desirable as a "background noise" (passable to perhaps even relatively good as it may be) than as a high-end treat. Consider also that this treat also needs (planned) exclusive time and attention.

 

[DaveBSC]

 
Quote:

 
As to your comment about the key being able to hear HQ sound go tell it to all the HI-Fi store owners who have gone bust in the last 10 years because they were priced out of the market
.
And to top it off a well thought out lower end system(Gee I hate that why not be honest and say CHEAP)in the right room placement can to the untrained ear sound BETTER than all that high end(sorry should have said Expensive}gear.

I don't think it's quite that simple. I've been to a number of high-end stores, some were fantastic, but many were average or downright annoying. There's a lot of "if you're not SERIOUS than shove off" attitude going on, and then they wonder why they go out of business. For someone that may have little or no experience with high-end audio, appointment only stores or stores with bad attitudes that only carry equipment $10K and up aren't exactly inviting. In many areas of the country, your choice is either a big box store showcasing JBL or Polk Audio junk, or a super high-end place that isn't really interested in talking to you.
 
I do agree that a properly configured entry-level system can produce fantastic results, and I think a lot more people might be interested in audio if they knew how far a total investment of less than $2K could go. Unfortunately it can be difficult to convince people that they need to make the room work for the speakers, rather than the other way around. Many just expect to be able to place speakers anywhere that's convenient. These are usually the same people that have their TVs mounted above the fireplace.

 

[David58117]

Is it just me or do phrases such as "high resolution sound system" seem a bit...stuffy? 
 
It makes me picture huge, expensive, wall engulfing speakers...and the list of $1000 systems at the bottom doesn't help easy people into it either.  
 
I wish he emphasized the cheaper, but still 100% better-than-what-comes-with-your-ipod equipment, such as headphones.  
 
 
Anyway, personally I don't get high definition TV.  No matter how "realistic" the picture gets, you're still watching it within the frame of a television.  The beautifully filmed scenery in that "Planet Earth" Bluray will never engulf you - it lives on a small box hanging on the wall of your living room.  Immersion is closing your eyes, putting on your favorite disk, and hearing the breath of your favorite musician, or their fingers grasping the strings of their instruments. 

 

[ford2]

 
Quote:

Is it just me or do phrases such as "high resolution sound system" seem a bit...stuffy? 
 
It makes me picture huge, expensive, wall engulfing speakers...and the list of $1000 systems at the bottom doesn't help easy people into it either.  
 
I wish he emphasized the cheaper, but still 100% better-than-what-comes-with-your-ipod equipment, such as headphones.  
 
 
Anyway, personally I don't get high definition TV.  No matter how "realistic" the picture gets, you're still watching it within the frame of a television.  The beautifully filmed scenery in that "Planet Earth" Bluray will never engulf you - it lives on a small box hanging on the wall of your living room.  Immersion is closing your eyes, putting on your favorite disk, and hearing the breath of your favorite musician, or their fingers grasping the strings of their instruments. 

I tend to agree,it is rather difficult to duplicate an IMAX theatre at home. 
 

 

[tohenk2]

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I tend to agree,it is rather difficult to duplicate an IMAX theatre at home. 
 

Yup - hence enter the newest 3D TV...
 

 

[ford2]

 
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Yup - hence enter the newest 3D TV...
 

Good luck to you if you think 3d tv is as good as IMAX.
 
I personally find it a gimmick and a very poor one at that.
 

 

[ford2]

 
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Yup - hence enter the newest 3D TV...
 

Double post makes a good start to the day,might try getting up earlier.