[CyberSyringe]

I've heard that hearing loss is due to accumulation of free radicals in your inner ear. Basically, noise exposure leads to the buildup of these toxins that will eventually destroy your inner ear cells and lead to hearing loss.
 
Maybe it's possible that you accumulated these dangerous free radicals ahead of time, and then this short blast somehow triggered instantaneous hearing damage. Just a hypothesis I have.
 
Based on studies I found, Vitamins A, C, and E as well as minerals like magnesium should clear free radicals from the ear and prevent hearing loss or further hearing loss. 
 
Just my 5 cents. 

 

[dazzerfong]

  cel4145, I gave that information to fully disclose that I am to blame for the volume being at an uncomfortable level.  I actually never claimed that the three blasts were not my fault, and this is something that I have accepted.  Similarly, to answers LNuneek's question, Ableton is not to blame for any error either.  I was able to reproduce the problem, and Ableton operated as expected.  The tracks playing at an uncomfortable level was a fault of my own, as I was working quickly to meet a deadline.
 
What I am claiming, however, is that upon buying these headphones, I was misinformed as to the possible damages from such a mistake.  Here's the point:
 
I check my levels to make sure the volume is at a comfortable level.  When I say I forgot to check my levels, this just means that I forgot to make sure they were comfortable.  The headphone specifications and warnings indicated that they would barely exceed the threshold of pain (roughly 120dB SPL), and from everything I have learned, from years of music production, school and the product warnings, I was not aware that such a level would cause the damage that it did.  One of the reasons I bought these headphone was because they appeared safe in terms of their maximum output. 
 
I honestly just want the users of these devices to get proper warning of the possible damages.  I am sorry, but I don't think anything that I'm saying is wanting or unreasonable. 

As much as I hate to say it, headphones don't really have a 'maximum' output (barring active protection systems, like those kids headphones): all it has is a value which, if exceeded, will degrade the reliability of your headphone. If you shove in a full watt on your headphones, you'll probably wreck it, but before the coil inside is melted, it will generate a very loud sound. I don't see how a warning is appropriate besides the usual 'turn down your volume before inserting your headphones' that's on every headphone I own.
 
That being said, no, 120 dB shouldn't wreck your ears. It'll ring it for sure, but it shouldn't wreck it. The most interesting thing you said, however, is that your low frequency hearing is wrecked rather than high-frequency.

 

[CyberSyringe]

  The most interesting thing you said, however, is that your low frequency hearing is wrecked rather than high-frequency.

Definitely weird. You'd expect the high frequencies to go out first. I don't know, it might've been a coincidence that you lost your hearing, and it might've not been because of the headphones.

 

[cel4145]

I honestly just want the users of these devices to get proper warning of the possible damages.  I am sorry, but I don't think anything that I'm saying is wanting or unreasonable. 

Then you are being naive. People rarely read warning labels. The primary purpose for warning labels--that are not government mandated--is to indemnify companies. If you want to actually achieve anything, you'll have to work on your own to create awareness.

 

[dazzerfong]

  Definitely weird. You'd expect the high frequencies to go out first. I don't know, it might've been a coincidence that you lost your hearing, and it might've not been because of the headphones.

That's what I've been thinking, though not quite exactly the same. Since I suppose you never had your hearing checked before, your loss of hearing might have already been present, but unknown to you. The ringing, on the other hand, is because of the loud sound. The two aren't related exactly.

 

[veita]

Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it.  
 
CyberSyringe and dazzerfong, I was actually wondering the same thing myself regarding the loss of my low frequencies.  It seems very strange that these would go first, as this appears to be a rare phenomenon.  I do know that the hearing was there the day before this event though, as I had put a sub-bass / bass into the song I was working on.   The next day, when the ear didn't get better, I checked and that's when I realized that the bass was gone..  this is when I decided it was time to see an audiologist.  
 
Also, I am aware that headphones can be cranked to as a high a volume as they can handle before eventually clipping / breaking.  This is why I feel torn between the idea of limiting the output to headphones.  It would take some sort of collaboration between manufacturers, which is just not going to happen.  Apple on the other hand, is an example of a company that does do this, and they have essentially limited the output of their stock earbuds which come with their devices, as they control all the specifications.   But, if you know the specs of the amplifier and the headphones, then an estimate of the maximum dB SPL is something which can be calculated.  
 
As I mentioned earlier though, I found that the headphones did not exceed the calculated dB SPL, and they were therefore working as expected.  That being said, I was unaware that 120 dB would cause this sort of damage.  Also, I have very rarely been exposed to loud sounds, so this was a shock for me.  In fact, I have only been to a small handful of concerts, and I prefer my music at an average volume (around 75 - 80 dB).   Of course, it's impossible to tell what exactly caused my condition, and I will likely never know why this final blow caused so much damage.  
 
Either way, regardless of whether or not I get action from Sony or even attempt to start litigations, I would like this story to be heard so people know that at least in some cases, even 120dB can be dangerous coming from headphones!

 

[dazzerfong]

  Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it.  
 
CyberSyringe and dazzerfong, I was actually wondering the same thing myself regarding the loss of my low frequencies.  It seems very strange that these would go first, as this appears to be a rare phenomenon.  I do know that the hearing was there the day before this event though, as I had put a sub-bass / bass into the song I was working on.   The next day, when the ear didn't get better, I checked and that's when I realized that the bass was gone..  this is when I decided it was time to see an audiologist.  
 
Also, I am aware that headphones can be cranked to as a high a volume as they can handle before eventually clipping / breaking.  This is why I feel torn between the idea of limiting the output to headphones.  It would take some sort of collaboration between manufacturers, which is just not going to happen.  Apple on the other hand, is an example of a company that does do this, and they have essentially limited the output of their stock earbuds which come with their devices, as they control all the specifications.   But, if you know the specs of the amplifier and the headphones, then an estimate of the maximum dB SPL is something which can be calculated.  
 
As I mentioned earlier though, I found that the headphones did not exceed the calculated dB SPL, and they were therefore working as expected.  That being said, I was unaware that 120 dB would cause this sort of damage.  Also, I have very rarely been exposed to loud sounds, so this was a shock for me.  In fact, I have only been to a small handful of concerts, and I prefer my music at an average volume (around 75 - 80 dB).   Of course, it's impossible to tell what exactly caused my condition, and I will likely never know why this final blow caused so much damage.  
 
Either way, regardless of whether or not I get action from Sony or even attempt to start litigations, I would like this story to be heard so people know that at least in some cases, even 120dB can be dangerous coming from headphones!

I suppose you can shove a fuse in series with the headphone, but that will indicate to the headphone manufacturer you're not using them properly. Also, calculate all you want, but unless you actually hook it up to a soundmeter and see how loud it actually was, it's a mute point. You're making some dangerous assumptions with your calculations, even with your 'worst' case scenario.
 
Remember, though: sound loss isn't only through trauma. It can occur through disease or genetics. That being said, if you did really hear 120 dB, it's barely on the threshold of hearing loss if you did indeed only listen to it for less than a second. Right now, we don't even know if your hearing loss is conductive or sensorineural (ie. your outer/middle ear vs your inner ear mechanics). Defer to your specialist.

 

[Raketen]

Sorry to read about your problem, and thanks for the details, I think its valuable to share these sorts of stories, if only to act as the occasional reminder of the worst that can happen- Occasionally dabble with some production software for my own entertainment and have definiately done similar things before (leaving system volume at max, and using the DAW to set master volume, but then starting a VST synth or something in standalone and getting blasted), fortunately to no ill effect yet- oddly I do have some tinnitus, but it cropped up completely out of the blue, on vacation, hadn't used headphones or been exposed to loud work noises in weeks

I think most headphones do come with warnings about safe listening practices in the documentation- but it'd be interesting if there were some kind of passive overvoltage protection to prevent them from being pushed past their predetermined SPL- probably totally impractical and expensive if there is a way, but seems like it might be preferable to restricting sources/amps given the wide variety of headphones being driven.

At any rate, good luck with the doctors/treatments/therapies.

 

[veita]

  I suppose you can shove a fuse in series with the headphone, but that will indicate to the headphone manufacturer you're not using them properly. Also, calculate all you want, but unless you actually hook it up to a soundmeter and see how loud it actually was, it's a mute point. You're making some dangerous assumptions with your calculations, even with your 'worst' case scenario.
 
Remember, though: sound loss isn't only through trauma. It can occur through disease or genetics. That being said, if you did really hear 120 dB, it's barely on the threshold of hearing loss if you did indeed only listen to it for less than a second. Right now, we don't even know if your hearing loss is conductive or sensorineural (ie. your outer/middle ear vs your inner ear mechanics). Defer to your specialist.

 
Hey dazzerfong, I do have a type 2 SPL meter, and this is how I tested my calculations.  I reconstructed the situation exactly as it happened that night, and then I even boosted the volume louder, and the max I could get was 119 dB SPL.  The meter had been recently calibrated, so I know it was giving me a relatively accurate reading.  
 
You are right though, I will have to ask my audiologist this question.  

 

[veita]

  Sorry to read about your problem, and thanks for the details, I think its valuable to share these sorts of stories, if only to act as the occasional reminder of the worst that can happen- Occasionally dabble with some production software for my own entertainment and have definiately done similar things before (leaving system volume at max, and using the DAW to set master volume, but then starting a VST synth or something in standalone and getting blasted), fortunately to no ill effect yet- oddly I do have some tinnitus, but it cropped up completely out of the blue, on vacation, hadn't used headphones or been exposed to loud work noises in weeks

I think most headphones do come with warnings about safe listening practices in the documentation- but it'd be interesting if there were some kind of passive overvoltage protection to prevent them from being pushed past their predetermined SPL- probably totally impractical and expensive if there is a way, but seems like it might be preferable to restricting sources/amps given the wide variety of headphones.

At any rate, good luck with the doctors/treatments/therapies.

Hey Raketen, thanks for the feedback, and I'm sorry to hear about your tinnitus!  
 
I have also been thinking of such a device, but to make this intuitive to users would be difficult..  I think it would be great if there were a device which allowed the user to dial in their selected max dB SPL, but it would require also entering the electrical characteristics of the input and the characteristics of the headphones.  It is definitely possible, but would definitely be more than just a passive device.  I think a solution is to use a passive volume control just to lower the volume, and then check the max SPL with a dB meter. 

 

[cel4145]

Hey dazzerfong, I do have a type 2 SPL meter, and this is how I tested my calculations.  I reconstructed the situation exactly as it happened that night, and then I even boosted the volume louder, and the max I could get was 119 dB SPL.  The meter had been recently calibrated, so I know it was giving me a relatively accurate reading.  

Ever notice that when you listen to a closed headphone without a proper seal, that the bass is significantly less? So you can't just stick an SPL meter in the headphone and get a measurement of the SPL that would be the same as when the headphones are on your head and properly fitted.

 

[CyberSyringe]

   
Hey dazzerfong, I do have a type 2 SPL meter, and this is how I tested my calculations.  I reconstructed the situation exactly as it happened that night, and then I even boosted the volume louder, and the max I could get was 119 dB SPL.  The meter had been recently calibrated, so I know it was giving me a relatively accurate reading.  
 
You are right though, I will have to ask my audiologist this question.  

You know, at this point I'm thinking it's not particularly because of your noise exposure but rather something else. Maybe blood flow was cut off from your inner ear somehow, which led to damage? 
This is probably mostly coincidental with other confounding factors.

 

[ktomatchu]

to the OP, more likely than not, you had some sort of predisposing condition or hearing loss already, and then sudden noise either precipitated it or simply brought it to your attention. doesn't really make sense that you can get permanent hearing loss at low frequencies like that. are you having vertigo/dizziness? maybe you should ask your doctor about meniere's disease

 

[OmarSnell]

Well that's sad! I too have a story to share. I went for shooting range yesterday and the biggest mistake: didn't wear my hearing protection. Shortly after that it was pretty difficult for me to hear noises. It was there in both my ears but more prominent in the right ear. Left ear  was back to normal after some time but the problem still remains in my right ear. Its been a day and I'm terrified. I'm meeting an audiologist tomorrow and there's going to be a diagnostic hearing evaluation at Westside audiology(Calgary). Hope everything goes well.

 

[El Zilcho]

Well that's sad! I too have a story to share. I went for shooting range yesterday and the biggest mistake: didn't wear my hearing protection. Shortly after that it was pretty difficult for me to hear noises. It was there in both my ears but more prominent in the right ear. Left ear  was back to normal after some time but the problem still remains in my right ear. Its been a day and I'm terrified. I'm meeting an audiologist tomorrow and there's going to be a diagnostic hearing evaluation at Westside audiology(Calgary). Hope everything goes well.

Indoor or outdoor? What all guns were being fired? Some guns are in the category of instant hearing damage, particularly when indoors where the sound is contained and reflected back at you.