[gideonMorrison]

Hi,
So i've been around these forums for a while now and the Head-Fi bug has struck again, I need a new DAP. I came to the conclusion when I really got annoyed by the D2's GUI. I kind of dislike Ipod for it's sq, but at least they know how to make a nice, sleek and easy GUI...never mind the sound quality though.
So, I've been reading too much and long than my brain can handle, people have a thousand opinions in this little world and they all seem contradictory.
First off, I want to have a nice amp like the p-51 or perhaps the new Shadow to match some good cans and the DAP, in the near future. Now I know there is hardly any dap out there with a true line out, I must conclude that almost all dap users with an amp use the headphone out...for example on the D2 the signal is quite clean, am I correct?
There's a lot of LOD's for Ipod are sold in the fs forums, so I yet again I have to conclude that a lot people use Ipods for amping as well...
Now, I would like to have FLAC as playable format in my future DAP (Zune HD, won't probably get it eh). Also a nice GUI like the Ipod (maybe s9, not so fluent?) would be great, and build quality also matters.
Which DAP could you recommend me with the given preferences... What are your experiences with DAP's, certain brands/types you wouldn't recommend...

I thank thee loads!

[possible edit's may follow]

 

[estreeter]

I was very gung-ho about the need for FLAC, until I tried to tell the difference between FLAC and 320K vbr - to my ears, its insignificant. Once you release yourself from the need to have FLAC/Lossless on your portable (as opposed to your hard drive archival copies), I think you will find it opens up a whole new set of choices.

If you are determined to stick with FLAC, its pretty simple : go to the Rockbox site and find which models have stable support, or buy a Cowon. Mine should be in my hands this time tomorrow night.

 

[gideonMorrison]

Thanks for your input Estreeter, anyone else like to share?

 

[ilney]

Well, I was about to suggest you a Sony, outstanding GUI imo. The SQ is also unquestionable. But then you insist on FLAC.

 

[bba1973]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was very gung-ho about the need for FLAC, until I tried to tell the difference between FLAC and 320K vbr - to my ears, its insignificant. Once you release yourself from the need to have FLAC/Lossless on your portable (as opposed to your hard drive archival copies), I think you will find it opens up a whole new set of choices.

About 5 months ago, I decided 192 WMA sounded 95% as good as WMA lossless with the equipment I had (including my ears). About three weeks ago, I did some upgrades and I re-ripped most of my collection to WMA lossless. Immediately, I noticed a whole new layer of sound that just wasn't there with the same equipment I used for several months. YMMV. I'm sure 320 MP3 is better than 192 WMA, but after going back to lossless, I'm not going back to lossy.

So far, I've only had 2 dedicated DAPs: a Zune 30 and a Zune 120. I'd definitely reccomend the 120, but with a downgrade to the 2.5 firmware for better interface and gapless playback. There's lots of other stuff out there, but I can tell you firsthand Zunes are good amped an unamped (better amped though

). For lossless, you'll have to use WMA lossless, but you can easily convert your FLAC files with dBpoweramp.

How much space do you need? Do you want something with a touchscreen or tactile controls?

 

[gideonMorrison]

Hey, thanks for the input! I reckon 32 would be enough, only then I'd have to switch albums a bit more...but not a real problem. Touchscreen I wouldn't have a problem, only if it runs relatively smooth/fluent...Tactile/TS, like the Ipod/Zune is also great, as long as it runs smooth. About the Zune 80/120, I heard that it's more for the mainstream as in not much tweaking/ not many codecs...like FLAC for instance.
Do you know what chip they used in the Zune? I really do like the design, screen and GUI of the Zune 120/80, but I do want to get really good sq as well. How does it hold up to the Sansa Clip for example?

 

[bba1973]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideonMorrison /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tactile/TS, like the Ipod/Zune is also great, as long as it runs smooth. About the Zune 80/120, I heard that it's more for the mainstream as in not much tweaking/ not many codecs...like FLAC for instance. Do you know what chip they used in the Zune? I really do like the design, screen and GUI of the Zune 120/80, but I do want to get really good sq as well. How does it hold up to the Sansa Clip for example?

I had to downgrade my Zune from 3.1 to 2.5 so gapless playback would work and so the interface would be smoother. With 3.1 and WMA lossless, the interface is too slow to even be useful, but it works fine with 2.5. Somewhere along the line, their development team really screwed up, and I guess the expect everyone to just live with it.

As for sound quality, I'm not sure what chips it has and how it would stack up to the Clip. My 120 had some nasty hard drive feedback (it didn't happen too often, but it got annoying), but this went away when I got my cmoy. With an amp, I'd say it sounds really good. Without an amp, it still sounds good, but it's not nearly as clean (ie hard drive feedback and slight hiss). I haven't heard a Clip or any other flash player, so I can't compare the SQ. Also, unless you get a 30 GB, the Zune has no EQ. I never used it on my 30, but it would be nice to have.

There's really not many tweaks and hacks that can be done (software wise). You can't use FLAC, but WMA lossless is really good, and dBpoweramp can convert your collection really quickly. The software can be a pain sometimes, but it's easy to use.

 

[gideonMorrison]

I'm gonna buy the Cowon S9 and a Clip... Best of both worlds! Cheers

 

[Head-Case]

Get an iPod Classic for the capacity and the UI, and use Apple Lossless for the sound quality. If you check back frequently, you may find a 160 GB iPod Classic in the refurbished lists on the Apple Store web site.

 

[blawhh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head-Case /img/forum/go_quote.gif Get an iPod Classic for the capacity and the UI, and use Apple Lossless for the sound quality. If you check back frequently, you may find a 160 GB iPod Classic in the refurbished lists on the Apple Store web site.

iPods dont have the best SQ though...

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blawhh /img/forum/go_quote.gif iPods dont have the best SQ though...

blawh, per my post on the Nano, I am prepared to give the Classic the benefit of the doubt. The rest of the range - if my 3 iPods are anything to go by - are so far away from the SQ benchmark set by Cowon and others that its scary. Wake up, Apple - if Sandisk were able to put something like the Clip together for reasonable money, why the hell cant your engineers ? Perhaps if you spent less on marketing and more on engineering - ah, crazy talk ....