[LanceTX24]

I know that the Sony ES line (such as the 555ES) is vastly (?) better than say a DVP-S550D (non ES Sony DVD/redbook) but why and how?

Technically, what makes this line far superior? Is it just quality of parts?

Those who have listened to both with quality cans (such as HD600), is it just night and day or more subtle?

I don't mind reading tech papers if you have a link, I just have not found any info comparing these two technically. More important is the sound difference from your experience.

Thanks,

Lance

 

[markl]

Hi,
There is a wide variety among the Sony ES line, for example, there's the 222ES which retailed at $800 originally, and there's the XA777ES which retailed in the $3000 range, so there's variation. But in general, the ES designation means that the player in question has been built to a higher standard than the lower-end models. That typically translates into better build quality and parts quality which at the end of the day is what is responsible for superior sound quality.

In general, there are 4 things that will affect a CDPs sonic quality, in rough order of importance (by my own estimation):

1. DAC chipset.
2. Quality of the analog section
3. Quality of the transport mechanism (ability to properly, cleanly, and accurately read CDs)
4. Quality of the player's power supply

Mark

 

[LanceTX24]

Thanks to anyone responding. It would be nice to have objective, scientific data as to why some sources seem to outperform others.

Many comments on this forum proclaim brand x is far better than brand Y but it is all subjective. I think if you pay $3000 for a source and compare it to your $300 source, sure you will say it sounds "better, less roll off, better stage, wider stage, whatever"...because you may actually think it does to justify the cost.

I know this could anger some but beleive me I don't mean to. I just wonder if there are any objective measures (like real measurements that have readings on real machines

..frequency response, THD, something that would show accuracy of waveform reproduction based on predicted waveform from data on CD ) for these sources.

Lance

 

[markl]

Hi,
Take a look at the Stereophile web site. They do a lot of measuring. But the problem is two machines can measure very closely, yet sound very different. IMO, we are far far away from devising machines as sensitive as our ears/brains when it comes to "measuring" sonic differences.

 

[sacd lover]

Markl, I think you have good ideas about what effects a cd players performance, but they say timing is everything with digital, so I would add the clock. I also believe the dac chipsets made today are all very good and thats where I expect to hear the least difference in performance. What makes the sacdmods 555es so good? A discrete class A analog output stage with its own beefy power supply, power supply improvements for the dacs and the new clock. The dac chipset and the transport remained the same.

My personal ranking of these five design areas would be :

1) the quality of the analog section
2)the quality of the power supply
2a)a low jitter clock
3)the quality of the transport
4)the dac chipset

In practice all of these are important and the very best players address all of them.

 

[LanceTX24]

To borrow a quote from MarkL...

"Writing about music is like dancing about architecture."

That's it, I want measurements of the design and not interpretations of the dance steps.

I guess it is true, and to borrow another quote from one of the posters here... "If it sounds good, it is good."

But I still want objectivity..may not be possible in this realm.

Later,

Lance

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally posted by LanceTX24 But I still want objectivity..may not be possible in this realm.

If you're comparing the regular Sony line with the ES line, measuring the differences is fairly easy. Typically, the regular Sony line machines use the same power supply for both the analog and digital sections, and thus the ground gets contaminated with inaudible but definitely measurable digital noise. Since you're using standard unbalanced RCA connections, that noise gets propagated to the outputs. Check the THD+N measurements provided by Sony -- I'll bet the ES line has better stats.

If you're comparing high-end gear (say, Cary vs. Sony ES), the measurements become a little harder, because the basic measurements are so good. To measure the slew rate of the analog output stage, for instance, you need to dissassemble both players and hook a tone generator as an input to the analog stage. Nontrivial to do, but it definitely does affect the final sound. That's why manufacturers specify slew rates for amplifiers. An analog output stage is basically a small filter/amplifier.

Anyway, the differences between the regular Sony line and the ES line are easily audible. You don't have to be an "audiophile" to hear the difference. Comparing the 222ES with the 777ES is a lot harder -- you might have to trust the measurements there.

 

[LanceTX24]

Interesting. So I presume a higher slew rate is better. Meaning it is a more precise signal as the Voltage over time value is larger?

( I am guessing here but I work with slew rate almost every day so I do understand what that is)

This is a start. I appreciate your time to comment.

Lance

 

[CRESCENDOPOWER]

Quote:

Originally posted by sacd lover Markl, I think you have good ideas about what effects a cd players performance, but they say timing is everything with digital, so I would add the clock. I also believe the dac chipsets made today are all very good and thats where I expect to hear the least difference in performance. What makes the sacdmods 555es so good? A discrete class A analog output stage with its own beefy power supply, power supply improvements for the dacs and the new clock. The dac chipset and the transport remained the same. My personal ranking of these five design areas would be : 1) the quality of the analog section 2)the quality of the power supply 2a)a low jitter clock 3)the quality of the transport 4)the dac chipset In practice all of these are important and the very best players address all of them.

That would be my exact ranking also, but I have never swapped out compact disc player parts before.

Maybe sacd lover, or markl should start a seperate thread with a poll to see what everybody thinks.