[daniel422]

Actually pretty much all Pioneer players (DVD-V and DVD-A) will output 24/96 from DADs. They were one of the first ones to "break the rules" and do this on most all their early DVD players. All this talk about redbook CDs with copy protect bits is moot -- you can't put higher-res audio on a redbook CD anyway -- the most you'll get is 16/44.1. Most early DVD players would NOT allow higher res outputs from DADs to be output, instead converting to 20/48 (generally 20bit, with some exceptions). Now this is not the case. Pretty much all the DVD-A players I've seen will allow 24/96 out (stereo only, of course) if set in the audio setup menu. I haven't seen any disc (copy protect bit set or no) that actually prevents the player from outputing 24/96 if the player was capable of outputing it.

Aside from all that, I also highly recommend a used Link DAC. The Link I uses the same components (PCM1716 DAC, Crystal receiver, and output buffers) as the Link II and Link III -- theree's just some board layout differences between the three that allow for more user-installable options (HDCD, upsampling, etc). They are also easily modified -- the PCB is well labeled with lots of extra space to work on. I'm a little biased I suppose -- I've also got a few II's --- I might be convinced to part with one since I'm using none of them right now (was using 3 of them as part of a six channel setup -- sounded awesome!). PM me if interested.

 

[vrao81]

Sov, the MSB should improve the sound of any player under $500, and likely under $1000. There are some reviewers on audioreview who claimed this DAC could compete against DACs costing upwards of $2000. As far as sampling frequency goes, I think you are stuck at 44.1khz with that Sony unless you a) replace your player or b) get an MSB Link III w/Upsampling module.

 

[Sean H]

Wow, this thread has really blossomed!

Sovkiller- The Theta DAC was once state of the art and is suppoed to be a very good sounding DAC. This is exactly what I was talking about. I often see these old killer DAC's that were once 2-3 thousand dollars that are now a fraction of that. Everyon'es wanting the latest and greatest. Some of those "older" DAC's from just a few years ago are GREAT! Check out the D/A section at Audiogon too. Lot's of good solid state DAC's, both old and new.

John- The DAC in a Box was once a pretty popular DAC. I'm not sure how good it is but a lot of people owned them so it was probably a pretty decent DAC. You might do some searches of the General and Digital forums at Audio Asylum to see what people say about this DAC. I'd have a hunch it's not as good as the MSB's and the Art though.

 

[vrao81]

In Stereophile's review of the MSB Link I they briefly mentioned the DAC in the box but said it was not in the same league as the MSB. This is expected though, since the DAC in the box is 8 (!) years old...

 

[Sean H]

Quote:

Originally posted by vrao81 In Stereophile's review of the MSB Link I they briefly mentioned the DAC in the box but said it was not in the same league as the MSB. This is expected though, since the DAC in the box is 8 (!) years old...

Age might not be the reason. I don't think the DAC in a Box was as well designed as the Link DAC's are. My Cal Sigma II tube DAC I use now is 10 years old, people line up for these on Audiogon and ebay. It's implementation and design. There's a Parasound DAC-1600HD on Audiogon for $400 right now, which is a DAC that was manufactured from '95-'98, which was once state of the art with Four Burr-Brown PCM 63P-K DACs and three separate power transformers in a really well designed power supply. That is a heck of a DAC still today and it's old. It retailed for around $2,000.

 

[lini]

daniel422: The moot part for redbook was clear to me, too (but then again, maybe not for possible 24/96 upsampling...) - hence the question for possible equivalents of the scms copybit on dvd-v and dad-discs and my wondering as to whther these would already count as "encryption"...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[daniel422]

Hey Lini.
Yeah, but it's moot for DVD-V as well, since DD (or DTS) is 20bit max at 48k. This never gets downconverted (although it may be cut down to 16 bits in some (rare!) cases on the digital output.
I think DAD discs by there very nature do NOT have this copy protect set -- the ability to output a 24/96 audio stream is based solely on the machine, and it can be overriden in many cases by direcly accessing the digital lines internal to the DVD player in the cases where the machine is not capable of putting out this hi-res format (the DACs in the DVD players almost always have the full 24/96 version going to it -- even when the digital outputs are downconverted). This is also why I stated it IS possible to get 6 channels of 24/96 audio out of DVD-A players (directly accessing digital lines on the PCB).
The copy protection scheme as I understand it is entirely set in the DD or DTS encoded portions of the audio -- not PCM. This only becomes an issue when copying a movie, not PCM audio.

 

[lini]

daniel422: I'm sorry, but I think you're not totally up-to-date format-wise. There is dts 24/96 already, and as far as I know, dvd-v-discs are not necessarily restricted to dd and dts soundtracks - these could be mpeg2 (though there are only a few) or pcm as well...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[daniel422]

Ah yes...you could -- I'm aware of the extended DTS format, but NOT that it's being used on anything (!) much less actual DVD-Vs. There is no provision for 24/96 DTS or DD on DVD-V (now non standard DVD is another story -- but it may not work on all players). You are also correct that DVD discs are not limited to DD and DTS soundtracks -- this is exactly what DADs are: DVD-V discs with PCM audio only.
Admittedly it's been a few years since I was designing surround sound processors -- things HAVE changed. Maybe there are some workarounds now that I am unaware of.
I'm not as familiar with the MPEG2 usage/resitictions since that is Europe only (pretty much), so I could be WAY off base there.
Thanks for the correction.

 

[lini]

Quote:

Originally posted by daniel422 Thanks for the correction.

It's not really meant as such - I see it more as a kind of group brainstroming to get all relevant info bits together. And apart from that, we're kind of side-tracking the thread, anyway...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: I'm also not too fond of all these existing formats - especially the one's that are hyped as important new features like dts 24/96, when there's only a handful titles to make use of these...

 

[dsavitsk]

can I ask how hdcd fits in to all of this? if a transport says hdcd, (a) does this make a difference, (b) does the DAC need to say hdcd, or can it simply say 24/96 or something, and (c) is there a difference in the sound, anyway?

thanks,

-d

 

[lan]

HDCD needs some extra hardware to decode so the DAC will need to say HDCD compatible to be able to process it.

There is a difference in the sound. If you have a windows PC computer, you can hear the difference playing the HDCD in Wwindows Media Player 9 vs another program. WMP9 can decode HDCD. It helps if you have a 24bit capable card.

 

[daniel422]

Yes, there is a difference in the sound. Some would argue wether it was an improvement or not. Early implementations of HDCD required a different output stage with 6dB of boost compared to normal CD. That ALWAYS sounds better! Peaple got wise to this and Pacific Microsystems changed their implementation requirements. It still often goes through a different output stage than normal audio -- sometimes to its detriment despite the "higher resolution".
I personally find HDCD a waste of time (and money).

 

[bundee1]

This may be your DAC JMedeiros

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.p...nv&1068523988.

and it comes with a good PC
great price, great seller feedback, great product reviews. I am not affiliated with the buyer in any way.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally posted by JMedeiros Will adding a DAC to my setup provide the same type of improvement that enabling "upsampling" on the Philips 963SA did...is this what a DAC does?

This has already been answered, but I just thought I'd throw my 2p in -- they're completely different, but on most DVD players (over-generalization), an external DAC will provide a vast improvement, should be even better than upsampling.

I own an Audio Alchemy DAC (although not that one), and it is easily one of my favourite DAC's for decoding redbook. Quote:

Originally posted by dsavitsk can I ask how hdcd fits in to all of this? if a transport says hdcd, (a) does this make a difference, (b) does the DAC need to say hdcd, or can it simply say 24/96 or something, and (c) is there a difference in the sound, anyway?

HDCD is usually taken care of at the DAC, so whether or not the transport is HDCD compatible is usually irrelevant. I find that there is a difference in the sound, although it's definitely at the point of diminishing returns. Subliminal is probably the word I would use.